Christianity

2004-02-01 [Elisandra]: Um...you are a little mis-educated about Christianity and its origins. Catholics (if you are referring to Roman Catholics) ARE Christian.

2004-02-01 [Darkred]: After past discussions I am sure you are only looking for an argument.

2004-02-09 [urbanfairy]: Good page!!! Its interesting although it makes me sad that wales is such a strong christian community!

2004-02-09 [Angel Dreamer]: I think Eilsandra is right, Catholics are Christian...

2004-02-11 [Elisandra]: Darkred, if there were no Roman Catholic church, you Protestants wouldn't be here today. And I am not looking for an argument, I just find it rather sad that you are so mis-educated about the origins of Christianity. One would hope that you would do a little research before making such outrageous claims.

2004-02-11 [sespark]: Let me see if I get this straight. It says in the bible that people are saved from sin and death by the grace of God through act of Jesus which means you don't have to follow rules to get to heaven? So lets just say hypothetically for a moment that I kill someone and don't feel sorry it or repent in anyway, but if I believe that Jesus died for me, I will live forever.

2004-02-15 [Elisandra]: Thank you for clarifying your statements, perhaps you can correct your original statements to reflect this clarification?

2004-02-20 [urbanfairy]: wateva. Nice page!!! come visit mine some time........ erm...... So, elisandra, are you a christian or a catholic? Just wondering coz you seem to be arguing for both sides (in my oppinion).... Just a question.

2004-02-20 [Elisandra]: *rae* 'Tis sad when people can't READ. *sighs*

2004-03-05 [The Pink Panther]: Darkred, the main difference between Catholics and other Christians (and what made different "branches" tear apart from the original -and Catholic- church) was not how many rules each one needed to follow. There were many critics to the Church (see Middle Ages) and also many people eager to a more "liberal" approach of christianity, as opposite to the rather traditional ways of the Church. But it's a much longer story, I think the teacher should take care of that.

2004-03-08 [♥Flames♥]: Do we get to have long interesting discussions? I love that kinda stuff

2004-04-10 [Aerin Weirynsra]: I'm a Protestant, Presbytirian. Christianity was divided, mostly during the reign of Henry the VIII of England. It split, into Protestants and Catholics. Both groups are Christians. Protestenism divided further into more denominations, some following Martin Luther (Lutherans), John Calvin (Calvanists), etc. It's true, that Roman Catholocism involves more rituals and traditions than most Protestent denominations. Elisandra, I'm guessing your Catholic?

2004-04-13 [sespark]: You do realize that Martin Luther split from the Catholics not the Anglicans. Your comment makes it sound that way. You all do realize that there are entire volumes of books on this very subject? I know, cause I am reading a number of them.

2004-05-14 [Aerin Weirynsra]: I never mentioned Anglicans, but yes, for the specifics, Martin Luther was a 'heretic' for going against the Catholic church, splitting directly off from them, as did the Calvanists as well. From those divisions came other denominations as well as denominations split off of Anglicainism which split from Roman Catholocism. For the sake of simplicity however, it's easier to say the main divisions (Protestantanism and Catholocism) and then point out that the Protastant church is further divided.

2004-05-19 [cipher_felsong]: The section about the division between the "Catholics and the rest of the Christian denominations" is rather convoluted. Is it really necessary? Also, perhaps it is not my place, but I would suggest going into a little more depth about the Christian faith. About who God is, who Christ is, and about the Trinity. The discussion of different denominations should not be an initall discussion. That is not what Christianity is. My main point is, Christianity is the Way. It should be presented in all of its uniqueness; God's ultimate sacrifice and ultimate love should be discussed here.

2004-05-19 [cipher_felsong]: Oh, and since you all seem wrapped up in the denomination discussion, I shall note that I am of no denomination. I am a born-again Christian, I believe in Christ's sacrifice and his resurrection, and I trust in Him. The Lord is my stronghold, and my guide. Denominations are not a necessity. I am non-denominational.

2004-05-20 [Darkred]: I agree with you. I go to a baptist church but dont consider myself baptist.

2004-05-20 [Kurus_Dreaon]: if i might...im a catholic and am very interested in hearing about other christians......if i could join the conversation here

2004-05-21 [cipher_felsong]: What do you want to know?

2004-05-21 [Kurus_Dreaon]: what ever i can learn......i think it only fair of me to learn all i can before i join an argument

2004-05-21 [cipher_felsong]: Well... as for myself, who claims no denominations, that means I have accepted Christ as my Saviour. I know He died for the sins of all, but rose again 3 days later. He is no longer on the cross. No idols should be made to any, and the only diety who deserves our worship is God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, whom are the same yet different. My salvation is not works based, but faith without works is dead.

2004-05-21 [Kurus_Dreaon]: bravo....i belive that faith is important...but work are just as important as faith

2004-05-21 [Angel Dreamer]: my church (baptist, though i dont always go by 'baptist' stuff >.>) teaches that faith is the big thing, and works just builds treasure in Heaven

2004-05-22 [Darkred]: Faith is a big thing but the biggest is love. God is love. All God requires is a genuine relationship with him. The focus is his love. Acts may come as a result of the love and would be genuine, but acts done to gain Gods love are pointless. Focus on the love and the acts will follow. Not the other way around. Faith is also greatly needed but that will also grow through spending time with God and thirsting after him.

2004-05-22 [cipher_felsong]: Acts are the result of having faith. They are, in most cases, proof that you are a Christian. Without the faith, the acts are pointless, and without the acts, the faith is dead.

2004-05-22 [Kurus_Dreaon]: thats what im trying to say....at least thats what ive been taught

2004-05-29 [mayonayz]: What's the difference with the different erm... "categories" of christianity? There's Protistan, Catholic, Christianity, and i'm sure i'm missing one.

2004-05-29 [Kurus_Dreaon]: baptist

2004-05-31 [cipher_felsong]: Well, there are a whole bunch of other branches of Christianity. Four-Square, Southern Baptist, Luthern, Methodist... the list goes on. Each denomination has slightly different ways of worshipping God. The Catholic church focuses on tradition and works to honour the Lord, for example. Some have their own versions of the Bible. The Catholic Bible has added and excluded certain books from the Jewish Bible, and the average Bible. The Lutherans have a different ten commandments; I think they left out one and split one verse into two commandments. So the difference is how they worship God. If their heart is true and they have accepted Christ and are not just going through the motions,

2004-05-31 [cipher_felsong]: then I don't believe that it entirely makes a difference. I, for instance, could never attend a Catholic church, for I fear I would fall into what the Pharisees (sp?) were doing. Merely doing their quota of good and spirituality for man, and receiving their praises. Like white-washed tombs, they were lovely on the outside, but contained rot and death on the inside. I think I would fall into being legalistic. So it sometimes merely depends on the person, and how they can best, truly worship God.

2004-05-31 [Kurus_Dreaon]: true but i have had it beaten into my skull that we cant just come to mass and be happy....we have to go out and and tell ppl about god and how much he loves us and then act like jesus would want us to live

2004-06-01 [Darkred]: If Jesus came back today, as he did 2000 years ago, than he would not go to mass or what we know as church. The purpose of church is to gather for fellowship, talk about God, and remember what Jesus did. He would be in people's houses for meals and chatting, and be building relationships. He would be talking with people about things that applied in there lives that were specific to them. We've created what we think church is when really we are fooling ourselves. (I agree with Cipher)

2004-06-02 [Itsme2]: Thank you, cipher_felsong....I agree with you completely!

2004-06-02 [Kurus_Dreaon]: *shrugs* so do i to a point......we need mass and those things to help us remember and to help us learn....and so we can honor god and christ in a special way

2004-06-02 [Darkred]: We have Jesus and the bible to learn and remember. We honour God and Christ in a special way in our hart and spirit.

2004-06-02 [evil little alice]: Im sorry to intterupt, but I don't really think this is a discussion that belongs in this classroom..how about learning people about christianity insted(whole point of religion-class) -The professor-

2004-06-02 [Clarimonda]: Lutherans don't have a different 10 commandments. Luther was the first Protestant reformer- he taught that faith is a gift given by God and nothing that we do, therefore we can't "decide to believe" on our own. God must give us faith, and belief follows.

2004-06-02 [Clarimonda]: I am Lutheran, so you can ask me about that. :)

2004-06-03 [Kurus_Dreaon]: but we have to want to love him before we can get faith...so it depends on us whole heartedly

2004-06-03 [evil little alice]: Pleas, people..I've said it already once..Pleas take your discusion about your personal beliefes out of the classroom, it does not belong here..this is ment for people who wonder about the religion, so they can ask question..not for you to talk about your personal beliefes and what your view of jesus is..if this does not stop, I will have to change this classroom..now, pleas do as I ask of you...-The professor-

2004-06-03 [cipher_felsong]: Of course we'll stop. But we really are answering questions here.

2004-06-04 [Darkred]: In this class it is a matter of discussion. How can one of us claim to know all there is about Christianity. If this is a class room that will be taught from the front with no discussions than the title of the room will have to be a lot more denomination specific. Christianity is so diverse due to the dominations that it is impossible to cover all possible aspects unless we have discussions. But if you want us to stop than we will.  

2004-06-04 [cipher_felsong]: Darkred, aren't you the prof? Can't you decide what we do here?

2004-06-04 [Darkred]: Well Yes. But I think evil little alice is in charge of the religion sect of the academy. I am porf of this page though and what’s been happening is fine by me.

2004-06-04 [Clarimonda]: I am confused... we are supposed to talk about Christianity as a unit and not hold denominational discussions? Than what exactly are we limited to here?

2004-06-04 [evil little alice]: Argh, Im not getting through the pointe here..just forget about it, continue your discussion..-the prof.

2004-06-06 [Clarimonda]: oh-kay then.

2004-06-06 [cipher_felsong]: Back to the discussion then. Clarimonda, my father and his parents used to be Luthern. My grandma was showing me one of her Luthern books which listed the ten commandments and, though they used the same basic verses, they interpreted the verses differently. That's where I got that info. That's also when she ceased to be Luthern (well, in that general time frame)

2004-07-01 [Clarimonda]: we teach the 10 commandments as worded in the NIV and Luther's Small Chatechism. How were the versions different?

2004-07-08 [cipher_felsong]: Well, I would tell you, but my Dad's Chatechism is at home, and I'm in a different state. But I'll let you know when I get back home.

2004-07-09 [Clarimonda]: oh OK

2004-07-19 [cipher_felsong]: Alrighty, got the info. The 10 commandments listed in 'Luther's Catechism' are: 1) Thou shalt have no other gods. 2)Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 3) Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy. 4) Thou shalt honor thyfather and thy mother, that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. 5)Thou shalt not kill 6) Thou shalt not commit adultery 7)Thou shalt not steal 8) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor 9) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house 10) Thou shalt not covet thy neightbor's wife, nor his manservant......

2004-07-19 [cipher_felsong]: The dif isn't that great. The ninth and tenth are the same thing, really, and the above list leaves out 'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth......' Like I said, not a big dif. That's the KJV, but I believe NIV says the same. I generally use NIV.

2004-07-21 [Clarimonda]: I see. In my church the "graven image" part refers to idols and would be therefore categorized under the first anyway.

2004-07-22 [cipher_felsong]: One thing I'd like the point out is that I believe when God said 'graven image,' He wasn't referring to only idols, images of other gods, but attempts at images of Himself. But still the dif isn't big. I really don't know if there was another reason my Grandma left the Luthern church. I doubt it was any big doctrinal falicy, though. ^_^U

2004-09-17 [font]: MMM - sorry to butt in. I read the first few comments and i believe the best way of learning is through discssuion from all sides. And this in turn answers Questions. Trying to stop people from doing so takes away their rights to believe what they want and to express it. - Font - Head of ETA Admin :P

2004-09-30 [Kurai Tenma]: You must come to the throne of God boldly, with a broken and contrite spirit to ask forgiveness, and he will forgive you your sins. It's Biblical.

2004-09-30 [evil little alice]: This is just a tip form my side, but I recomend all of you to take a look at the LaVey-satanism-class , Not to be judgemental in any way, but there is a lot of misunderstanding between the religions and ignorance from both sides dosn't help anyone. -The professor-

2004-10-02 [Clarimonda]: I agree. I really like that class. I like how it's set up and how it includes its major philosophies and beliefs.

2004-10-04 [Kurai Tenma]: Eh, in order to fully grasp a religion, you must know the history and for which it stands, other than that, I don't really care about other religions. I don't believe them.

2004-10-06 [evil little alice]: Atmostrata: Im sorry to sound rude, but its opinions like that that causes religius wars and intolerance. Say, many christians belive satanist are evil, and don't mind their religion more than that. Knowledge, Understanding, Tolerance, ain't that the values in you own holy book? Atleas was alst time I read it. Act as you preach.

2004-10-06 [Kurai Tenma]: Well, if you pay attention, (not smarting you off, I promise), I want to know the history and what it stands for, meaning, I want to know enough not to be confused with what they are. I respect anyone who wants to believe anything they want. I wont' say they can't, and I wont' go off on them for it. I just choose not to believe them.

2004-10-07 [evil little alice]: Mhmm, See you point, a little misunderstanding there.

2004-10-07 [Kurai Tenma]: That's probably my fault. So don't worry about it. I'm use to using my lingo the wrong way.

2004-10-07 [cipher_felsong]: It's important to understand the other religions out there, so, as Christians, we can properly share our belief, and know what their's is. Show the differences. It is always bad to go in ignorant. ^_^U I was shoring up on the Morman beliefs when discussing it with a friend once, and likewise with Islam.

2004-10-07 [Kurai Tenma]: Yup, the wise man knows both sides of the arguement so he may probably defend his and attack the opposing.

2005-06-01 [Priest Kel]: Truth in the Word

2007-12-02 [Easterling]: There's no one taking care of this classroom nowadays... is it?..

2007-12-03 [Priest Kel]: I don't get online much anymore, but I will help you anyway I can

2007-12-03 [Easterling]: Actually I was thinking of helping you...

2007-12-12 [Priest Kel]: Helping me? How so exactly?

2007-12-12 [Easterling]: I'm a theology student, and wrote a paper about the trinity last year. When I saw this page I thought I could add that here, of course if the owner of the wiki is interested.. :)

2008-01-03 [Dumnorix]: I humbly believe that the look on christianity this wiki-page offers is a wee bit simplistic. I'd heartily encourage Easterling to complete it quite thoroughly; I believe the part on Jesus also casts a rather naïve and modern look upon the figure of the incarnated logos.

Also, one cannot approach Jesus without precisely defining our Nicaean conception of Trinity... or else, we'll soon be back to the arrian heresy and killing eachother, exiling bishops and whatnot :P

Anyhow, it's worth a look, and a great amount of work.

And pardon me... but I believe phrases such as "don't have to follow rules but you need to accept his love and forgiveness" are hardly rigorous, theologically speaking, and have a strong protestant bent. I, personally, am a Roman Catholic, and would like to see our viewpoints more strongly voiced, or at least not put down. We're talking about centuries of synods and ecumenical councils; great minds of all time have been at work, thinking for the Catholic Church. Hilary of Poitiers, Augustine of Hippo, Lucifer of Cagliari, Athanasius of Alexandria, Anselm of Canterbury... to name just a few.

2008-01-03 [Imperator]: Now there is also the Catholic class. However this is further complicated by the fact that there is also an Abrahamitic religions class, which encompasses Christianity, which in turn encompasses Catholicism. As none of these classrooms are properly staffed, someone could go through and fix all this.

2008-01-04 [Dumnorix]: I agree. Nevertheless, this page should not be called Christianity class, as it expounds certain anglican/protestant/whatever points of view, which hardly can be said to represent all of christianity.

2008-01-04 [Imperator]: If it were completed though...

2008-01-04 [Easterling]: It really shouldn't be called christianity class, more like "Lutheranism".. Or there would be a classroom called Christianity Class that included both Catholicism, Lutheranism and possibly also Pentecostal and Baptist tradition.

I'd like this page to be more.. well, informative. But of course, that means someone would take the responsibility to sit down and offer time for it.

I can translate the work I did on the trinity, but only if there would be to any interest to someone, and I'd need to do it sometime when I've got some spare time. (Quite busy these weeks.)

2008-01-05 [Priest Kel]: I'd read it

2008-01-05 [Imperator]: Yeah, I'm interested as well. It would be a very enlightening read. Maybe you could have a seperate page for each branch of christianity.

2008-01-05 [Easterling]: I was thinking of an idea... Why not have a Christianity Classroom that had got a short introduction with the Nicene Creed, and then links to wikis that would handle Catholicism, Lutheranism and so on... Then there would also be a title called Dogmatics or Articles and Debate or something like that where articles about different matters within christianity could be added. There, my paper about the Trinty, would fit in... 

2008-01-05 [Imperator]: Yeah, that way this classroom would absorb the Catholic-class. If you put all that work in, this class can really be revived.

2008-01-06 [Easterling]: Would I be allowed to do some tiding up here if I got some spare time?..

It'd be good to know who has written each section of this text - the name of the writer should always be added as a signature, I think, because then the one who read would be able to know who has got that opinion and who he/she should ask.

2008-01-06 [Imperator]: In this case I don't think it matters who wrote what because they've all left Elftown. To become the teacher of this classroom and make all the changes you want, just submit an application at Academy Applications and a member of the Board of Governors will review it. :-)

2008-01-06 [Easterling]: Ok. I might do that sometime, it's not going to be soon, though... there are a lot of things to do these first weeks of the new year...

2008-01-06 [Imperator]: Yeah, I understand.

2008-05-21 [Imperator]: [Easterling], I was excited about the prospect of this classroom being revived. Is that still possible?

2008-05-22 [Easterling]: Yes, it is. This semester has been very busy for me, but I can see what I can do now when summer vacation is coming. :)

2008-05-22 [Easterling]: I'd like to make many changes in this classroom. I'll make a wiki as a test and then show it to you, so you can see what I mean.

2008-05-22 [Imperator]: Yay! Alright. :-)