2006-07-10 [Adaman]: First you'd need a character, I'm not sure you have one yet [dribilie]. Unless I've happened to overlook it somehow.

2006-07-11 [dribilie]: at one point i did...im sure if i look hard enough i could find it but i doubt it...so i guess ill make a new one and then go explore...how does that sound??

2006-07-11 [Priest Kel]: Sounds like fun

2006-07-11 [Adaman]: Hold on, I'll look through the "big list". (ie, my notes. I watch every Fantasma page I make, sure I'll find yours soon.)

2006-07-11 [Adaman]: Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to find your character anywhere in the list. Triple checked to be sure. You can feel free to make a new character, I'll coach you through some of the information since the character pages are under some work.

2006-07-12 [dribilie]: its been some time since she was created...so ill just make a new one...im getting good at it lol

2006-07-12 [Adaman]: Okay, send in a message to me the type of character you hope to make, and I'll flesh it out a little if need be.

2006-07-12 [Adaman]: Big announcement. I've got a way to make spells different than skills, so Magic will be under work again sometime soon. Hopefully the update will finish this time as well. Anyway, as you've all seen skills can be upgraded with skill points to improve how well they work. Spells will be different in that they will always have the same quality, but will be able to be used in different ways with "upgrading" though the upgrade will be more of a technique enchancement rather than quality enhancement. So all spellcasting classes will finally be able to use magic without it seeming like a mirror use of skills. As of yet this is not ready, but something to look forward to. Until then, enjoy skills.

2006-07-12 [Blood Raven]: good thing there aren't alot of mages then

2006-07-12 [Adaman]: Yes, but hopefully that will change once Magic is up and running the way it should be.

2006-07-12 [Blood Raven]: I'd like to make a mage, but only one char is allowed ^^" so now, I'l just multiclass Raitzu as planned

2006-07-19 [Adaman]: How were you planning to multiclass Raitzu? A Champion/Shaman, correct? You might want to read over the multiclassing section in the class page, it's not as easy as it looks.

2006-07-20 [Priest Kel]: Ain't that the bloody truth

2006-07-20 [Blood Raven]: I have patience :)

2006-07-20 [Adaman]: Patience means nothing, there are internal limits that cause you to leave some skills out in Multi-classing.

2006-07-20 [Priest Kel]: Yeah, it almost makes for a weaker character if you multiclass because you have to give up important class skills

2006-07-22 [Adaman]: Phew... after a few grueling days, Fantasma Weapons has finally been updated completely. A tutorial about the new weapon system in detail should pop up sometime next month after classes, magic, items, and armor are also updated.

2006-07-22 [Blood Raven]: are there only limited skills a char can have?

2006-07-22 [Blood Raven]: Oh I see, I just found that particular section of text of the classes page :P

2006-07-22 [Adaman]: Yep, I try to make features text at the top of the page. I will probably do something similar for the weapons page soon to describe where the precision bonus went and what attack speed really means.

2006-07-23 [Adaman]: I think Armor is complete, though I would appreciate any feedback or questions about the change in case I missed something.

2006-07-29 [Black Adder]: Oooh, has it evolved since I leaft?

2006-07-29 [Adaman]: Plenty. Classes, weapons, armor, and hopefully magic soon. Biggest obstacle is finishing classes, and it needs to be done before magic is started.

2006-07-30 [Aradon Templar]: I did say I'd look into this once summer was here, and my apologies for failing to do that. I do still have it on watch, though, and once other distractions subside *cough cough -Guild Wars- cough*, I'll get a character. But for now, Guild Wars is proving to be a rather interesting MMORPG because the new campaign is coming out. Sorry about that.

2006-07-30 [Adaman]: No problem. I understand with guild wars, free online play and all makes it rather attractive.

2006-07-30 [dribilie]: i didnt know online play was free for guild wars??? have i been missing out or what??

2006-07-30 [Aradon Templar]: Hah, yes you have been missing out. Guild Wars is inferior in quality to WoW, from most opinions, though the graphics are much better, I've heard. However, Guild Wars is free to play, after you buy it for $50. Of course, if you buy every new installation (one every six months), it totals up to just less expensive than WoW :P And I'm looking into creating a character atm, Adaman. I originally thought 'monk' but it said it was better for expert players. I'm considering a ranger, though I might just start off practicing with a hunter. I'm looking for something light-weight and non-spellcaster, which don't often go together :P

2006-07-30 [Blood Raven]: well, if it says 'expert', it doesn't mean you need to have played this wiki before. I started out with a monk as well. But it does mean you should be familiar with dice-based RPGs and need to take a good look at the combat system and such.

2006-07-30 [Adaman]: Monks are mainly for experts because they don't benefit from weapons as much as other classes do. Besides, at the start you'll be a novice class anyway which should give you time to decide what sort of combat you'll get into.

2006-07-30 [dribilie]: i started making a character last night but got reallyt tired and stopped...so now i have to start over

2006-07-30 [Adaman]: Whenever you have the information, just send it to me in a message. I'll get it up asap.

2006-07-30 [Black Adder]: Er. I am a great fan of MMORPG's but unfortunatily until lately I have had no sustaned income, now with a job I am looking into the possibilitys. I can effectively get at least £40 a week, which MMORPG would you suggest?

2006-07-30 [Adaman]: WoW if money isn't an issue, Guild Wars if money is tight.

2006-07-30 [Black Adder]: Well how much is monthly subscription to WoW? (World of Warcraft yes?)

2006-07-30 [Aradon Templar]: $13 a month, last I checked. If you're getting Guild Wars, I'd wait until Nightfall comes out in November, though otherwise get Prophecies. Everyone's complaining about Guild Wars factions- nobody likes assassins because they die too easily and nobody can play them right :P

2006-07-30 [Adaman]: In history, assassins have always been a target for everyone. They're not well liked at all, either by friend or foe. An assassin who lives after their first job is a pro, but they may never live after more than 3 jobs. Of course in Fantasma, they are decent advanced classes so you'll be sure to kill many things. Just don't attempt to kill city leaders in your first run.

2006-07-30 [Aradon Templar]: Hehe. In Guild Wars they can be decent, but not many people play them well. They're best for PvP combat because they can take down a single guy very quickly, but they still take awful amounts of damage. I imagine an assassin would be fun to play, here, in any case. The job requests must be very interesting.

2006-07-30 [dribilie]: 13 a month isnt bad at all considering that the game is really popular in wisconsin...but money is an issue...especially with getting my liscense and all that, and with no job thats even harder...but i think i could spare 50 for a game and some late night entertainment lol

2006-07-30 [Adaman]: Assassin requests in Fantasma are probably to kill key figures in armies more than city leaders.

2006-07-31 [dribilie]: i was looking at being a dancer...but i dont really see the point of the character

2006-07-31 [Adaman]: Dancers are crowd control, and basically interrupt actions from enemies during combat through plenty of distraction. They usually get what they want from NPCs, and have a fair chance of haggling their position. They aren't remarkable at killing or defending, since that is what other classes are for. Dancers are merely a means of keeping monsters from imminent deathblows on your allies. As a solo character in combat, they can be lacking but in role-playing they generally do a better job than most. A solid support class with the distractions they cause, and definitely work well in teams.

2006-07-31 [dribilie]: ok so basically they are a sort of defense in a way...distract the enemy so the fighters can do thier job quicker and easier...that about right??

2006-07-31 [Adaman]: It's more of indirection and interruption, since they aren't countering any offense themselves. You have the basic idea of its purpose though.

2006-07-31 [dribilie]: well that makes them sound way better now...i didnt really get the point before. but now i do.

2006-07-31 [Adaman]: Dancers can become good at combat, it's just that they have to use skill slots to adopt some of the standard combat skills in order to do so. Against advanced combat classes, they will still be at a disadvantage but not dreadfully so as they would without combat skills. Likewise some of the physical classes can adopt distraction skills, they just won't make as much use of them as a Dancer would.

2006-07-31 [dribilie]: ahh i get it now.thanks your a big help...but i guess in a way thats kind of what your here for right?? well im of to bed its about 1 am here...night

2006-07-31 [Adaman]: Yep, I'm here to help you understand Fantasma. I made it after all, what good would I be if I didn't know it like the back of my hand?

2006-07-31 [dribilie]: thats a reaslly good point. seeing as how you made it you should probably know everything there is to know and answer and question that anybody had right

2006-08-01 [Adaman]: Yep. Elemental Magic is going to change drastically, but not to worry. I'm working on ways to keep spirit and guild magic different, but it's providing a tad difficult. At least one type of magic should be up within the week.

2006-08-01 [Priest Kel]: Good

2006-08-01 [Adaman]: Fantasma Elemental Magic is complete. Feel free to have Mages now, hehe. I'd like any feedback, suggestions, or questions about it.

2006-08-01 [dribilie]: i like the layout of it...its nice and easy to read and understand for people like me who might not get it at first glance...but i got that very nice work

2006-08-01 [Adaman]: I'm hoping to make each type of magic (Elemental, Spiritual, & Guild) different from each other in subtle ways. Elemental Magic has the reduced Mana cost for having resources, and then Guild Magic will have "styles" which increase quality of spells drastically on huge differences in rolls. Spirit magic is still under consideration in how it will be different, though it will likely have alot to do with altering neutralities as one can tell from Skills that there are not many ways to change neutralities.

2006-08-01 [dribilie]: hmm a little lost but i get the general idea and i think it sounds realy good

2006-08-01 [Adaman]: The main issue I find with spiritual magic is trying to seperate it from the religious based skills. I'm sure through blood, sweat, and tears I shall find a solution.

2006-08-01 [Duredhel]: Well do it like D&D, Arcane and Divine magic, you cast Arcane Magic consuming Mana and Divine magic consuming Faith or something of the sort.

2006-08-01 [Adaman]: That could be an option, but since faith is so limited the amount of casting to be done from Spiritual magic would be very limited as well. Of course there is always the prayer skill to fix that. There will probably need to be some tinkering with it I would imagine, and right now I'm working more on guild magic since I have ideas flowing for that.

2006-08-01 [Blood Raven]: You could try basing Spirit magic on Charisma, rather than mana or faith. You can basicly cast more as more spirits are willing to help you, and attracting spirits, to me, sounds like charisma comes into play. I could have just misinterpreted the word 'spirit magic' though

2006-08-01 [Adaman]: Spirit Magic is Holy, Evil, & Chaos spell groups. You have an interesting idea with that interpretation, though it's likely to have something to do with voodoo & shamanism. Most magic will be based on the magic stat, though for some intelligence (and probably charisma) will be a basis on how powerful it is.

2006-08-07 [dribilie]: is it unheard of to have a vampire race as a dancer??? i think it could be interesting but i want a second opinion please

2006-08-09 [Adaman]: Vampire as a dancer is possible, but your character will start out as a novice class to begin with despite that. If you choose the "dancing" skill as your default skill, you'll already meet the prerequisites to become a dancer and all you will need is to get a skill point from a battle.

2006-08-09 [dribilie]: ok that sounds good to me

2006-08-09 [Adaman]: All you'll need now is to submit a character information in a message to me. The How to Make a Fantasma Character page has been updated, I think. So you can find what information needs to be submitted from there.

2006-08-10 [dribilie]: ok that sounds good

2006-08-13 [Adaman]: Update: Items within backpacks no longer contribute to size/weight limitations. It's less realistic, but far more simplistic. Backpacks limit the number of items that can be carried anyway, so there shouldn't be too much of a backlash from this. I'll probably be setting a limit to the number of items that can be grouped together in a backpack slot equal to the strength level of the character or something very similar. Weapons and armor cannot be carried within a backpack.

2006-08-16 [Adaman]: I've decided to jump onto the Fantasma Raid RP feature of Fantasma and I'm accepting character designs. You must already have at least 1 other Fantasma character to join, because this is something of an experienced party where the fights will be tough, and likely numerous. All the famous dungeons and battlefields will be run with this group, and special features may be encountered more often. Unlike solo play though, characters in this party will not be free to disband, run amok, or simply quit. If you're not an active role-player, the raid feature is not for you. I'm accepting character designs, but if you have an old character you'd like to import I'll accept that as well so long as it complies with current standards (ie, no demons, dragons, etc).

2006-08-28 [Priest Kel]: Crap, I'm hoping to become more of a regular once more, but until its more stabilized then I shall stay out of the Raid feature

2006-08-29 [Adaman]: It may not matter in a week or two, because soon I may not have the time to keep Fantasma running anymore, at least in the form that it is now.

2006-08-29 [dribilie]: what no more fantasma???

2006-08-29 [Adaman]: It may end up that way, at least for the role-playing portion of Fantasma. For 3 years almost it has been run primarily by myself, and now that I'll be getting a fulltime job, I'll no longer be able to sustain it in its current form. However, Fantasma will be changed into a Fantasy encyclopedia, listing all the mythologies that Fantasma has incorporated. It will be a resource for other RPs to draw information from, such as deities, monsters, cultures (races), weapon types, armor types, and other such things from around the world.

2006-08-29 [dribilie]: what if people helped?? im sure that a lot of people could help in a lot of ways. it would suck to see it gone after suh a long time, not to mention the fact that you would have put all that time into this for nothing

2006-08-29 [Adaman]: In all truth, Fantasma has been dying for a long time. If I had let it die instead of changing it over and over, it would already have been dead 2 years ago. I've moved on to other wikis, and Fantasma just takes too much of my time in the form it is now. I'd love to say that with help I could keep it active, but I would not wish the fate of running Fantasma onto others.

2006-08-29 [dribilie]: hmm thats really sad then

2006-08-29 [Aradon Templar]: That's understandable. Again, I'd offer to help, but you are in fact irreplacable, I've seen, so it'd be a moot point. I'm glad it isn't going to waste, though; it's a lot of effort, and you deserve something to show for it, at least. In truth, I think it's grandly expansive, and worthy of video-game manufacturing, though it'd lose the most crucial aspect of being so adaptable. Truly a pity :\

2006-08-30 [Adaman]: Heh, not to worry. I have plans for other Fantasy based wiki RPs, but not until I can find a niche. I'll also be linking to other good RPs here that I know about, so everyone will be able to find an RP they can enjoy.

2006-11-09 [Blood Raven]: y'know, it's sad I only made Raitzu until after this RPing-contest. He would have been a true joy to RP with in that contest :P
(For those of you who haven't met him, Raitzu was a not-to-bright Troll keen on becoming the Champion of his race, with a weird Jamaican/pirate accent and a hatred for gnomes, halfings and elves :P [Adaman] knows what I'm talking about :P)

2006-11-09 [Adaman]: Yes, much love for the Raitzu.

2007-04-14 [Child of God]: Wow, this is impressive. Kudos!! :D

2007-04-14 [Adaman]: Thanks, it would be more impressive if I still worked on it at the rate of my other wikis though.

2007-09-18 [Blood Raven]: It sure was superb when you still ran it. I really loved the setings and the system. I do wonder why the really cool RPs such as Fantasma and Lemire are either dead or on the brink of it.

2007-09-18 [Leonox]: The only problem that occurs is the same with any rp, trying to get people to join and commit.

2007-09-18 [Aradon Templar]: Yes, it's effort-intensive, both on the mod and on the players, though I suspect much more on the moderator :P

2007-09-18 [Adaman]: Dude, what the hell?

2007-09-19 [Blood Raven]: Hmmm? I'm not following. I wasn't accusing you of anything, if you think so. I'm just saying fantasma was one of the best games, maybe even the best, Ive played on ET, and that it's a pity you've had to stop moderating it. I'm not holding it against you. I couldn't even find the time to GM a single lemire party, let alone an entire setting. So all respect to you dude :)
Sorry if stuff got across wrong :P
Or, if I misunderstood, sorry for filling up comment space :P

2007-09-19 [Aradon Templar]: Or it might've been referenced to "Under re-construction... please don't comment." at the top of the page.

2007-09-20 [Adaman]: Bingo [Aradon Templar]. I'm going to let everyone know right now that Fantasma's rebirth is not high priority on my list of wikis, so don't expect even weekly updates on this. Right now I'm just throwing ideas around, posting before I forget them.

2007-10-03 [Priest Kel]: This seems pretty cool. Almost like an Age of Empires game

2007-10-04 [Adaman]: Almost being the key word, this will be far more complex and hopefully have more to offer in terms of having political storylines between nations. High scale role-playing instead of the low scale traveller kind. This way your characters will actually genuinely be rulers of a nation, and it won't be cliché.

2007-10-06 [Priest Kel]: Sweet. Count me in

2007-10-07 [Aradon Templar]: Adaman, do you do this sort of stuff for a living?

2007-10-07 [Adaman]: I should.

2007-10-07 [Leonox]: i think he tries to at times, scares me how often he gets a new idea.

2007-10-09 [Adaman]: That should be the final race setup, for now. More major races will be added when Centra opens up.

2007-10-11 [Priest Kel]: Sweetness

2007-10-31 [Eyonic]: oooooo, this looks flippin nifty!

2007-11-01 [Priest Kel]: Durn' skippy!

2007-11-02 [Leonox]: i promise to take it easy on all of you

2007-11-04 [Blood Raven]: Ah, in that case, let's all be sportive and chill out while conquering the world of Fantasma. We shall be known by our great titles. Blood Raven, the Laidback Conquerer of the plains. Leonox, the Greatly Relaxed. And Adaman "Let's chill" the Demonlord :P

2007-11-04 [Eyonic]: ? im confuzeled ?

2007-11-04 [Leonox]: how so?

2007-11-04 [Blood Raven]: I was just braintoming funky titles in case you were going to take it easy on us, when the game started. I figured that was what you ment?

2007-11-04 [Leonox]: no i meant why was empty_one confuzeled

2007-11-04 [Eyonic]: all of the "funky titles"

2007-11-05 [Leonox]: its just blood raven being himself, and right now the only person who really bothers me is sunny silverunicorn.

2007-11-05 [Eyonic]: oh, okay.

2007-11-05 [Adaman]: Why does she bother you? Because her starting nation is so close to yours? Either way, beware those demons to the north. They're vicious bastards who wouldn't think twice about unleashing hell on your nation ;).

2007-11-05 [Blood Raven]: yeah, and they can teleport hell, too! :-O
You won't be allowed to have any ambassadors capable of building any form of door in my nation! Who knows what might come through :P

2007-11-05 [Aradon Templar]: Oh, I didn't realise the game was beginning to be planned out already. I have a question, then. Seeing the game map, I'm at least interested. Adaman, how much time required a day/week do you think playing this would require (to play well, I mean- not minimum)? If it's within a range I could handle, I'd be interested in playing a nation. That is, if it's open of course.

2007-11-05 [Blood Raven]: It probably won't be active for some months, maybe even a year to come. We're just [Adaman] groupies claiming his creation before it's even anywhere near ready for playing :P
But maybe your agenda will be a bit brighter by that time? :)

2007-11-05 [Aradon Templar]: Yeah, I'm not expecting it to open soon. I know how much work it takes to make things like this move. But I figure if he's keeping track of kingdoms by now then it wouldn't hurt to let him know to expect plus one.

2007-11-06 [Adaman]: Okay, here's the official word. Fantasma, as mentioned, is far from even testing development. I'm only taking nation reservations now so that people who get in early have the best starting locations. Though to be honest, it doesn't make much difference since the locations are enormous. Having this as a 'true to dimensions' world scenario is becoming prohibitive, and I may decrease the size of it overall to make it managable rather than realistic.

Now, about the time needed to run a nation. It's completely up to you, but the more active user will have their nation develop much quicker. Most of the economic, industrial, and political situations will be automatic when the suzerain (the player) is absent. Of course, should someone declare war on you, your nation will probably not last long without you. It also means local bandits won't go unpunished, and several other things which are player run.

2007-11-06 [Aradon Templar]: Eh, looks like I'll be able to play, then. But yeah, not for a while :P

2007-11-08 [Priest Kel]: Oooh, yes I wish to play too!

2007-11-11 [Adaman]: Fantasma World Map has been updated. I sort of said "screw scale modeling" so each area location will be treated as a square mile, but the locations will still have 16 individual quarter mile areas. This scale puts Adon more like the size of Great Britain, or another large island like that, but it'll be far easier to manage and likely more fun to play. This does mean that there will be a whole lot more world to Fantasma, since I'll probably keep adding new 'continents' like the already planned Centra. I've adjusted the grid, and we've something like 10-12 squares added to each side, which had caused me to adjust map positions as well for starting nations. They're about the same areas as you started in, just different numbers... so you needn't worry about that. Added to the map itself are numbers to actually track your location, and nation colors.

2007-12-29 [Avalon86]: It seem you've been busy with fantasma dear cousin

2007-12-30 [Lite]: So is this like a strategy game? Something like (if you've heard of them, which you probably have) StarCraft or Warcraft, except not real-time and written out in words?
If it is anything close, I would be interested in starting a nation.

2007-12-31 [Leonox]: i believe you understand the concept, but this is going to go further into detail. You will need to balance an economy, and actually run a country, not just army based stuff.

2007-12-31 [Lite]: Okay then, I've played other games entirely based on economy in the medieval times as well, so I guess I'm good. How do I start a nation?

2007-12-31 [Leonox]: message adaman and talk to him about it

2007-12-31 [Lite]: kk, thnx

2008-02-03 [Adaman]: In order for me to keep this working, and still have everyone involved entertained. I would like to see what sort of things could be thought of, so I'm making a Fantasma Units page that will allow the players to write out all the different unit types they would like to see or should be seen based on the racial type. I have a few set ideas of my own, but I'd like to see what you can come up with. Try to make them unique and creative, and I might just have them added in to the final project.
-edit-
Additional note, most of Fantasma's progress is held up because I found a kink that I need to work out. It has to do with the sheer madness of keeping track of several units in a mess of dots and have the maps small enough to load onto elftown.

2008-02-03 [Anomynous]: Ehm... okei, I know I'm not a part of this, but I've been stalking it for some time now (typical, I know).
Would it be possible for me to make a few unit type suggestins. Con permiso, jefe?

2008-02-03 [Aradon Templar]: I tried using a battlefield once for battle, and ended up using basically ASCII. It wasn't the prettiest, and I think you're using instead actual images uploaded to Elftown. I'd think you'd be fine with using colors, symbols, and numbers. You could for example, color the units by the nation's colors to keep track of sides, use different symbols for unit types, and numbers to specify which lancer a particular lancer is. The only other specification I could think of would be unit strength (a full unit of soldiers, or a unit of soldiers with half of them dead, for example). I suppose you could use a bar or something across the top of their square, with a full bar indicating full capacity.

If that wasn't what you were worrying about, I guess I've just been rambling :P And yeah, I'll have a look at the units suggestions page.

2008-02-03 [Adaman]: I made the link editable, have at it [Anomynous]. No promises they will make it to the final design though.

I have several different ways of working it out, but I'm beginning to think that their may be specific battle zones outside of maps. I'm not sure how this will effect actual raids on cities. What I am trying to avoid is making a new map every battle, because that really takes up my time.

2008-03-15 [Adaman]: I have a different vision for how Fantasma will work now. I want to let everyone know because I think it incorporates the best of what we have and gives everyone a chance to do what they would like.

The idea is that there is one king, and several lords. The players (lords) will run campaigns for the single nation of the king, thus you can decide to be loyal or unloyal by running these missions. Unloyalty will not be tolerated, but you can still get away with it ;). On top of having political implications with your fellow lords, you also have the outside enemy races and developing the lands you conquer along with the king-granted fiefdom which is your own separate kingdom. Now, this takes away from the previous design of Fantasma in that it means you have to be the same race as your players. To alleviate this problem, we're only running with one race until the story is complete to an exceptional level, and then the players switch to a different race for another completely different story and set of lords. This makes Fantasma finite, but allows less of the mundane to plague your experience. You don't need to worry about economy (the king will T_T) but if you still want to adjust and run your own economy, you have your fiefdom for that and you can make it prosper and grant additional resources to your disposal rather than what the king grants you monthly. It also allows a clear story to be given to everyone, making it more entertaining than making one up yourself (it takes a lot of work, trust me). Anyway, I would love feedback on this set of ideas, or any questions you might have.

2008-03-15 [Aradon Templar]: Well until now I had considered the other players to be my likely source of most opposition, but it seems now that we'll be working together, or we at least won't be at open war. With this new layout, what will we we be fighting against?

I have no problem with single races, but to vary the game up a bit, perhaps you could have different varying factors for each fief. By that I mean giving modifiers to each player like "10% income" or "-5% build speed" such as races might offer, however use a different reasoning. For example, you could create different government styles (drawing on my Utopia and Earth2025 experience now, oh noes! :P), though that seems to not fit in this case either. Perhaps each lord could choose a code to follow (Honorable, Merciless, Treacherous, Mercantile, etc) that confers bonuses for certain actions or something. Just a thought there, but now that I type it it seems more and more complicated XD.

In any case, I'm interested to see anything happen at this point :)

2008-03-16 [Adaman]: Each lord will have their own separate training methods, and specialized units. One lord may be more familiar with a neighboring race while another specializes in fighting undead. It really depends on how you develop and find needs for your units to compete or work diplomatically depending on what front you have. I'm more interested in promoting all the players as a team rather than competing, because it allows everyone to work together to reach the goal of winning rather than having everyone squabble amongst one another to achieve a stalemate in war. At least this way I can continue to throw enemies and keep the action relatively at pace. The first planned race will be humans (with elves and dwarves as neighboring races to assimilate). Since it's the first race to control, it will mostly compose of the building up of a nation's defenses and other basics such as conquest, control, diplomacy. As other races are explored, the difficulty will be set much much higher and the missions far more dire. And there is a good chance that any new characters you make for the new race will be fighting some of your old characters you leveled up for so long. Naturally I think this system allows everyone to explore each race and make several characters, and to "replay" should you have liked to do better with your characters. As the GM, it will also give me a chance to develop standards in difficulty to make it more challenging for the players.

2008-03-16 [Aradon Templar]: Very nice, I think this will go well then. And I agree, I like how this method promotes cooperative play as opposed to player vs player. This way, everybody wins except NPCs who don't really mind losing. My thoughts? Full speed ahead then. I see plenty enough specialization already in mind that this should be very interesting :)

2008-03-16 [Blood Raven]: I agree on the fact that this new style will keep things more alive. As [Adaman] said, PvP will likely result in a stalemate, unless one of the players eventually grows so strong it's not possible anymore for the others to stand up to him/her. But that would ruin the fun as well. So, even through I regret having to leave behind my precious Orcish and Trollish minions, I agree upon the new system. Especially since we'll be given new missions eventually, and play another race each time. I also like the fact that we might end up battling our own characters :P

2008-03-16 [Adaman]: I have to say I'm starting to like the feedback about this system. It also helps us in that we can start with a few players and import more as we go along as well. So long as we keep a number of lords the game will go on, even if we have some craven lords abandon us.

2008-03-17 [Lite]: So... Any ideas for a plot in this grand set-up? If we get this right, I'm sure it has great potential. :D

2008-03-17 [Blood Raven]: Indeed, I'm rather looking forward to a strategy-oriented wiki, rather than a roleplaying one. Seems very refreshing ^^

2008-03-18 [Lite]: You can say that again XD

2008-03-18 [Adaman]: The plot changes depending on the race, and I've gotten a rough outline of how it'll pass. Human -> Orc -> Undead -> Demon -> Saurian -> Illithid -> Djinn. The previous races of Elves and Dwarves will be part of the Human plotline, but will have their own separate heroes, units, buildings, etc. It's safe to say that by the end of the Demon plotline, we'll have the Centra expansion complete so that the new races will come into play along with an entirely different continent, since we'll have likely exhausted all of Adon, Æonwinter, and Atlantis by that point. (Though Atlantis will have key roles in the Illithid story) That's just a rough idea, depending on what other ideas might influence the change.

2008-03-18 [Blood Raven]: I'm looking forward to the first camapign to see how it will all work out. I assume that the general concepts of building, army managing and units will not really be changed in any major way, because of the new gamestyle?

2008-03-18 [Blood Raven]: Alright, I has made a page for how I think the Fantasma unit system might work: Fantasma Concept Units. I figured putting it there would keep this place from getting very chaotic :P

2008-03-19 [Adaman]: It's good to have a page for your ideas, though I think you've got some of the races mixed up a little in their description. That's okay though, I see where you're getting the ideas.

2008-03-19 [Blood Raven]: Yeah, you'll probably have to redo the races. I couldn't find the old Fantasma pages where all the races could be found. But I just wanted to point out the general idea, and some ideas i had for special abilities. But y'all get the general idea. I hope :P

2008-03-19 [Adaman]: Fantasma Races +
-edit-
Keep in mind, I don't plan to use all of the old Fantasma races, some of them will be nixed out in favor of the new Djinn and Illithid races, merged with some of the regular races, or be considered minor races which will be tribes and not part of kingdoms unless assimilated (most of the feral races and taurs will be minor races).

2008-04-29 [Adaman]: I know this may be a disappointing comment, but bear with me. I have decided that a wargame for Fantasma is too complex for one person to handle, so I'm dropping that idea for a project. However, I want to revisit Fantasma as it was when it was a role-playing wiki. Though, I don't want it to be something vast as I originally planned it. I would like some volunteers who would help me redo the entire wiki, including ideas to keep and those to leave behind. Drop me a message if you're interested, and I'll give more details.
-edit-
I didn't get near the response that I expected, so I thought I would give a slight preview...

2008-04-30 [Blood Raven]: I'm in :) Fantasma has been my favourite wiki, for as long as it lasted, and I'd like to see it go up again. If I can help with that, that would be cool :)

2008-04-30 [Aradon Templar]: Well I was hesitant to say anything at first, because I'm not quite sure how much help I could be. Can't say I'm much good at creating games and the like, but I'd certainly be glad to lend a hand if you let me know what needs to be done. I did have fun for the short bit I was able to play :)

2008-05-01 [Adaman]: It's going to be more game-like and less story-like than other wikis I've run. I got the idea to remake it as it was when I looked over some of the information I had back when it was a RP wiki. I just realized that for the story, most of the players were kind of boring and I placed too many details on the mundane. So, instead of going that traditional route I'm having everyone just jump right in with combat ready characters. (I'm still toying with the idea of having different characters for every dungeon area, since it's brought to my attention that some people like to stick with their characters)

2008-05-02 [Blood Raven]: Raitzu was a combat-ready as a hell hound in puberty. If it weren't for that damned chicken, he'd have kicked total ass! :P

2008-05-02 [Blood Raven]: Oh, and to say something constructive as well: action-packed dungeon crawlin sounds good to me :)

2008-05-02 [Adaman]: Constructive indeed. Though I am almost certain your character will focus more on destruction.

2008-05-02 [Blood Raven]: ...
Who told you that? Where are your spies? *goes to search the house*

2008-05-06 [Adaman]: I need opinions on everyone about the Races of Fantasma. Anything you remember from the old races, which we should keep and which we should add or any features you'd like to see.

2008-05-06 [Blood Raven]: I don't think a lot of features should be added, seeing the old races were about as extensive as I've ever seen them. I mean, lots of those races looked cool, but 90% of them wasn't used. So it depends on what you want, really. Do you want to give players a lot of choices and freedom? Keep the long list of races. You want to see more aspects of your game come into play? Then maybe you should cut it down a little...
That's just me talking, though. In general, I liked the 'core' races (ones that also pop up in D&D and just about every other fantasy RP) like elf, human and dwarf and how they had normal, demonic and undead versions, making available the orcs, trolls, goblins, vampires, xindhi, and all those races.
The long list which you could cut on I think is the list of beast people. I don't know exactly, but we had like twelve different species of animalfolk, including goat people, cow people, cat people, dog people, boths of which had different sub-species like tiger and wolf... It was maybe a bit too much.

2008-05-06 [Aradon Templar]: I don't recall too much of the available races to choose from. The races you have listed above look to be good to keep, though I'd be hesitant with allowing a demon race in this new setting, but I suppose it'd be manageable. I think a few more races in addition to the four/five above would be nice, too. Perhaps include the races planned for Centra, unless you were reserving those for something special. I likedt he idea of bloodlines that I found on the Fantasma Races section, though I don't think they need to be quite so numerous. Two or maybe three per race would allow for additional character customization (Which I always like :D).

As for features related to races, I think race should impact slightly your stat growth rates or original stats, depending on how the game works, and perhaps give you a few (one to three at most, I think) racial abilities, much like Warcraft did.

2008-05-06 [Aradon Templar]: Ah, I just found the page I had been looking for (an older version of the Fantasma Races). Honestly, I liked all the choice variety. However, a lot of it seemed like it was of minimal impact to battling and would deal more with the roleplaying aspect of developing your character. I don't think they're all necessary for the new layout. I did note, as Blood Raven was pointing out, your variations of the undead/demon/light variants, and I think that could be applied to the core races to create five different races with three subvariants that would provide more than enough customization for characters. Of course, if you didn't want to be evil or light, you might want to provide a neutral/regular variant too. Anyways, that's how I feel about them. And again, I was looking over your old version of Fantasma Races and I have to say again, great job coming up with all that :)

2008-05-06 [Adaman]: Trust me, the amount of work put into Fantasma astounds even myself. I agree entirely with every point of view listed here. However, there is an issue with concern to the "orcish" (considering calling them "Fel" since they are cursed by demons) races, or more specifically the cursed versions of 'core' races. The issue itself has been talked over, but it's still something of a debate. Here's an illustrative example...

Humans have different bloodlines, seven specifically. Now, if a Hyperborean (fairly big people, foot taller than average) person is turned into an orc... and a Lemurian (fairly small people, foot shorter than average) person is turned into an orc... Are all orcs to be treated as equals despite cultural differences from the people they were part of originally? Don't think simplicity is a necessary option, because if we base Fantasma on changing characters every time we change dungeon locations (because they could very well be on the opposite ends of the world, and such quests rarely happen in one person's lifespan) then we could limit particular cultural and racial options depending on the location of the dungeon, thus changing the way Fantasma plays in terms of location.

An example would be a dungeon that is very greek... so characters should have some kind of greco-roman influence echoing through them to relate them to that area. If suddenly you had an oriental samurai fighting against a greco-roman minotaur monster, it reaches a high level of anarchronism that takes away the reality of the quest itself. So more than location, a time frame of technology (like weapons) would probably be in effect. Just some ideas to put up for discussion, this is the redesigning of Fantasma, I'd like for people to know what I am thinking could be possible.

2008-05-06 [Blood Raven]: Well, considering your story about the Orcs was how these had once been humans ,taken away by demons to fight some otherworldy war, and only having regained their freedom a relativly small time ago. Thus, them having battled across the multiverse in the blasted nether regions of Hell (and all that planar blah blah) you could say they have been bred to become 1 Orc/Fel race. Same goes for Elf->Troll, Dwarf->Goblin etc. etc. This background story, the Fantasma Origin of the Fel races, is still among my favorite background stories I've ever read. I lose the way you wove it into Fantasma history, and it presents a lot of background options (like Raitzu trying to erase the demonic stain and bad reputation of his race through noble and forthcoming behaviour towards others). So I'm hoping you won't change that :)

Theme-based dungeons are cool, and could definatly add something to the atmosphere and roleplay of a dungeon. Even though I do think that cultural restrictions should gradually fade away for (well-known) high level dungeons. For example, if there's this big wizard's dungeon which is supposed the be 'the ultimate test for adventurers', it's likely warriors and mages from all over the globe come to test their mettle there. But overall, I like themes. It adds depth and motivation. You could build a dungeon and just say: "there's people in the dungeon from the neighbouring lands. You don't like the neighbours. Get them out." Then you'd get a sort of culture vs. culture battle, and we can get all racist and all that :D

2008-05-07 [Adaman]: Well, the Ultimate Dungeon in Fantasma is Sarvix. The supposedly mythical flying castle "armor" of Apochryphai, however having such a dungeon is a bit against Fantasma Lore. I never really introduced it because it was supposed to have been destroyed, but I thought of a way I might be able to use it so long as people don't mind a little mystery to find out why such a thing exists. It would be a good dungeon for high level escapades, but it is still mostly set in Centra, so I would think Centra-native races (which is a good 2/3 of all races) would probably be best.

As for Racism in Fantasma... go for it ;). Just keep it to the role-playing.

2008-05-07 [Aradon Templar]: Changing characters for each dungeon is, I think, a bit of a hassle, but the reason you've presented is also a very good one and thus I agree with the idea.
As for the problem of background for orcs, it would certainly affect their appearance. Practically in terms of stats and things, though, I would think that the character would be retaining stats that would reflect his bloodline. For example, if one bloodline received a +2 to charisma and +1 to intelligence and a -2 to strength, the orc would as a result have those same modifiers. It wouldn't be necessary to keep track of them, though, because they'd already be realized in the pre-orcization statistics, so whatever modifications that occur to the statistics as a result of becoming fel would still reflect the variations in bloodlines, if that makes any sense. I'm not sure I completely understood the problem, either, but hopefully this addresses it.

2008-05-07 [Blood Raven]: Orc as a template rather than a race, then?

2008-05-10 [Adaman]: You're also forgetting that the way these dungeons are planned, you could be spending a good 4-5 months (minimum) with each character. It's not as if it is a rather short time.

Anyway, I think Orcs will probably have a similar treatment to that. I just don't think the bloodlines will have such strong differences between them. I'm also planning a mix-and-match body plan for characters, so we can say that even if everyone in that bloodline is quicker than others, we can still have the fat one in the race that is slower but heals more from eating food (or something similar to that effect).

2008-05-28 [pelv13]: i have been "away" for awhile, but i like to see forward motion, even if it isn't in the original context... i am very familar with several pen and paper roleplaying systems, so i think i may be able to offer some form of help... i noticed the reference to DnD above, which caused me to wonder if you are looking for something similar to the d20 system or if you are wanting to take it a different direction entirely...

2008-05-29 [Adaman]: I'm starting off with Fantasma Stats for characters. Fantasma was based not so much on a d20 system as much as it was a d6 system. The list is a bit rough at the moment, but it's a general outline of what I have so far. I've been tinkering with the balances, hoping to get something that allows for a little play.

2008-07-20 [Aradon Templar]: :o I recently took the time to learn (mostly) how to play D&D (from http://www.d20srd.com). This game looks completely different now. It makes a lot more sense at least XD In any case, I have a much better feel about what's going on, I think, and wanted to say again that if you need any help with this, I'd be glad to lend an opinion or a hand, whatever you need.

2008-07-21 [Leonox]: dnd 4.0 was the keep it simple, stupid release. It was made for experienced and inexperienced players.

2008-07-21 [Aradon Templar]: I am not sure what version I read on, or if it even was strictly a version and not simply standard d20 rules for various games, but I definitely learned a lot more about how these sorts of games work. The content of Fantasma earlier seemed overwhelming to me, and then I checked out D&D. Needless to say, I don't have half a clue as to how to play, still, but I have a much better idea, and can probably be a little more useful now :P

2008-07-21 [Adaman]: Fantasma is based on a 1d6 system, so it's actually a slight bit easier than the 1d20. The only difference is that the stats don't change when characters level up.

2008-07-21 [Aradon Templar]: Well, d20 wasn't so confusing, but it was just the complexity of having so many options of actions, and each action changing whether you add in the attribute modifier, if you ignore dexterity for your AC roll, all the different states you could be in, etc. And it didn't help that I haven't read a Player's Handbook yet :P

2008-07-22 [Leonox]: lol, ah the infamous d6 system. i figured you would have switched to a d20 already.

2008-07-22 [Adaman]: No need really, a d6 suffices with smaller number stats. All a d20 would do is increase the size of the numbers, it wouldn't change the math. Unless we all want to nitpick the difference between a 45 and 50 strength. Would be exactly the same as a 4.5 or 5 strength, smaller numbers -> easier math, less numbers -> easier typing. However, I would like some ideas, since I have a program now that allows me to roll any size dice, from 1d2 to 1d999.

Actions are not that complicated either, they are just the allowed number of movements, attacks, and defending in a full turn. You had to determine how much you wanted to use to attack, so you could leave some to defend or to move and attack, move and defend, etc etc. There were also some line of sight tactics you could use, since actions were valuable. If you could force a slow but powerful enemy to move instead of attack (by perhaps getting between him and a weaker ally, moving rocks to block short routes, etc), you could use that against them. If I did anything less, the combat would just be the same old hack n' slash with no tactics in moving around since you could always move the same speed in distance all the time, and the faster person is able to abuse that with strafing. I will admit though, I do tend to over-complicate some things and I am working on that.

2008-07-22 [Aradon Templar]: Nah, the old Fantasma was a system I understood. I was referring to D&D, which had so many options of attack and other complications. Could choose to grapple, bull rush, sunder, attempt to grab their weapon, charge, etc, and the rolling mechanics were all different. I was like, "Just give me a sword or something so I can swing it?"

Well, I suppose you could mess with the rolling system by having feats or abilities that added to the size of the dice you roll, perhaps. Like a "greater strength" skill that adds two to your die size for three rounds or something. Not sure what you had in mind in regards to ideas with dice, though.

2008-07-22 [Adaman]: I would just stick with the 1d6, but I'm open to ideas.

2008-09-09 [Adaman]: http://elftown.eu/stuff/FantasmaWorldMapNew.jpg

That's the new map for Fantasma. Unfortunately, it's in a format that prevents it from loading in a smaller size ratio as I want it to.

2008-10-28 [Earoluim]: ....

2009-01-15 [Earoluim]: what just changed on the page ?

2009-01-15 [Aradon Templar]: The structure was changed a bit. Adaman added info regarding the first campaign, as far as it's planned so far. By the way, you can always check the changes by going to 'view diff' on the wiki info section, right next to viewing different versions.

2009-01-15 [Adaman]: There is more to add, but I was distracted before I could add all the other details.

2009-01-16 [Earoluim]: * Smiles and nods, bowing my head * Thank you, I am still trying to get used to this face lift, and this site for that matter

2009-01-16 [Aradon Templar]: You know, I think I've had more fun with this wiki from reading, speculating, and imagining than I actually had in my brief time playing it :P

By the way, Adaman, I thought I recognized the name "Holo Dim Wall", so I googled it, and you may be interested to know that your wiki is the number one search return :)

2009-01-17 [Adaman]: Hmm, that is good. It's made up 100% so I would have been more surprised if Holo Dim Wall in Fantasma was not the number one search item.

2009-01-17 [Aradon Templar]: Haha, that's true. Still, it's neat that even with the massive number of sites and content Google searches, yours turns up on top.

2009-02-26 [Adaman]: Massive update, Fantasma Weapons is complete with all the weapons we're starting Fantasma off with. Leave any later weapon suggestions in the comments, but before you comment you should know that Artillery, muskets, and other weapons are planned. Artillery will be added later, and Muskets will be an experimental weapon design that has a very specific set of needs in order to research. I appreciate thought in suggestion, because the absence of thought makes me doubt the seriousness of the idea. Suggesting weapons like the Katana will merely get a finger point towards the Saber Sword weapon.

Certain weapons I'm not sure how to place yet that were from old Fantasma include the Boomerang, Chakram, and other thrown weapons (Shuriken). I'd appreciate any ideas on that in particular.

2009-02-26 [Aradon Templar]: Question- what format is the game now planned to be in? Before, I know it was something akin to a turn based strategy game, but then I had thought it was changed to something closer to an RPG, with a single character/small party focus. What do you mean by 'research'?

2009-02-26 [Duredhel]: Uhhhm... the weapons look like they belong in a role playing game, but the front page hints at strategy >__< I is confused.

2009-02-26 [Earoluim]: I think it is a rpg, with a hint of strategy in them. But then again I am not sure as well.

2009-02-26 [Duredhel]: ... It could be warhammery.. as in, small squads and skirmishes instead of huge armies

2009-02-26 [Earoluim]: * nods *

2009-02-26 [Adaman]: It's a strategy with RPG influence, each unit will have individual stats, acting as if a character. The weapons hint more at individual units having attack and defense power. I'm not quite sure what hints at role-playing in the weapons, since I've gone to much much greater detail with weapons in my RPGs. I think they are kind of basic, and just tactical options to arm soldiers differently. It may not be massive at first, but squad based similar to how a party is run (since the first objectives are to secure the nation, running down bandits, monsters, etc).

2009-02-26 [Aradon Templar]: Okay. They read like options for a strategy game to me. The details are specific like an RPG, but all that information about resource cost and production time didn't sound like it would be based on single characters :P

2009-02-26 [Earoluim]: * nods *

2009-02-26 [Duredhel]: Uhhm.. what confused me was mostly the linear AOE special, since it reads as tailored for an individual character rather than a regiment or squad (which is the way strategy games of this type are usually handed). So it made me either RPG or squads small enough to consider each soldier's area of attack.

2009-02-26 [Adaman]: Once Fantasma reaches mass combat level, the AOE (area-of-effect) attacks, spells, and abilities will be of high importance. We'll be dealing with numbers in the thousands, which seems daunting at first, but when you consider that units are given the same order, all it takes is a little time and combat will progress week by week. It'll give time to change tactics, which could include flails and their AOE special. I chose this method rather than stacking units because it seems more realistic, since large armies "overlap" when in combat, and it just doesn't seem right to have 1000 units in a single space on a combat board, they should be massive and have a limited amount of area that they can actually attack a single unit from. So really, Fantasma will start off like an RPG, but later on it'll kind of be like controlling how the flood overlaps the other flood.

2009-04-10 [Adaman]: Fantasma Weapons was edited to include defense for weapons, which is devised as "block chances" rather than any particular defensive augmentation or amount. Smaller weapons will typically have low block chances, and larger weapons will tend to have 3-4 block chances. In relation to armor, this will increase unit survivability if you have weapons which are given more to defense.

The Armor section should be up and running soon, in which case I'll get further into the attack vs defense and damage allocation that Fantasma will be working with. For now, weapons are pretty close to their final configuration.

2009-09-27 [Adaman]: Ugh, it's been forever since I've updated this project. Rest assured though, its coming along offline. I have to post some of the newer stuff, hope that no one has lost interest in the project.

Currently working on Magic, any suggestions or ideas?

2009-09-27 [Leonox]: lol well yes it has been awhile, and interests still perked.

2009-09-28 [Aradon Templar]: I'm of course still interested, though I do not know if my current schedule permits that much play time. Of course, that'll probably be different by the time this actually begins :P
Anyways, what do you have for magic so far? Do you plan on using different schools of magic, different specialist casters, different tribal spells available to various races, etc, and what are you envisioning for casting restrictions? Recharge durations on spells, or a pseudo MP system? Once I hear a bit about what you have in mind for it, I'll see what ideas I might have to offer :)

2009-09-29 [Adaman]: Fantasma Pyromancy is complete under the working idea for Magic, some of the numbers still need to be tweaked but its enough for the idea.

The magic types for Fantasma run as; Pyromancy, Aquamancy (Hydromancy is more phonetically correct though), Geomancy, Aeromancy, Illusions (some of the ideas are really good for this one), Psychic, Voodoo, Exorcism, and Blood Magic. They might all have good/evil variations... and Exorcism might work its way into a hybrid branch of Pyromancy.

I'll also need to work Enchantment in there somehow, but I'm imagining that as more of a talent branch than an actual school of magic. Spells that exists under Enchantment originally might work their way into a "Witchcraft" category.

2009-09-29 [RaineDagyr]: This is awesome, what you've done with it and all. :)

2009-09-30 [Adaman]: Thank you, little one. Hopefully the project will keep working towards some inevitable goal.

2009-09-30 [RaineDagyr]: Mhm, agreed. <3

2009-09-30 [Aradon Templar]: So, are you looking for spell suggestions under those categories, then?

2009-10-01 [Adaman]: Sure am, I have a set list of ideas but I might be able to add more or some as hybridized spells. I am a little picky, but don't let that discourage you.

2009-10-22 [Adaman]: Fantasma Armors...

I spent all night working on this, changed from older idea system. Its not complete, as there will be a tutorial for how to create armor pieces at the bottom, along with examples...

However, at the time of this comment, I am tired and need to sleep before work whoops me. Leave comments, I'll answer them later.

2010-01-28 [Earoluim]: Awesome.