2005-08-26 [Rondel]: Congratulations, [CelticMoon]! I still don't understand the British school system, but it looks like REALLY good news, and I'm happy for you! :)

2005-08-26 [Azuri]: Whoo yaya for you !!! Though i dont understand it in the least i know it means something good for you^.^

2005-08-26 [Delladreing]: *hugs the Jussy* well done my sweety, I'm very proud ^^.

2005-08-27 [CelticMoon]: lol dont worry i dont understand your schol system in the slightist either lol ..... thankyyyyoooouuu ::hugs:: i couldent belive i got a B cos i missed a hole 12 point question off cos i ran out of time

2005-08-27 [Rondel]: For the Terry Pratchett fans in the group: you can still hear ALL of Mort (the BBC radio version) by going to http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/listenagain/monday/ for the first one, and then Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday -- you want the item playing at 1800; if you keep looking at that same time slot, starting Friday, you get Wyrd Sisters. :) Just click the "Listen Again" link to hear the programs; they'll play if you have RealPlayer installed.

2005-08-27 [Delladreing]: YAY I love the Pratchett, I listen all the time when its on

2005-08-27 [Azuri]: ^.^ yay so its all good the british dont undertand the americans and the americans dont understand the british^.^ Its like the revolutionary war all over again only on a educational level XD

2005-08-27 [Azuri]: I probly just made zero sense>.< oh well^.^

2005-08-27 [Delladreing]: lmao

2005-08-27 [Azuri]: Oh yes im very out of it today>.< must get more sleep in the furture

2005-08-27 [Delladreing]: i know the feeling, and i managed to work ten hours after only sleeping for 3, and i am still going lol

2005-08-27 [Azuri]: Lol ^.^ i didnt go to bed tilll 5 and was force awake at 10 i should have slept untill about two!^.^ i hate when my sleep gets cut short hehe

2005-08-29 [a faerie tale]: *doesn't know whats going on. Begins to sing and dance to remove akwardness.*

2005-08-29 [Azuri]: Heh*joins in faries dancing and singing* Weee

2005-08-29 [Rondel]: Well, for those of you sending kind thoughts our way, we're moving in 8.5 hours (in which time we're supposed to sleep, get up, get dressed, and pack the last few bits and pieces).

2005-08-29 [Delladreing]: i wish you well as always [Rondel] :)

2005-08-29 [Rondel]: Thanks hon. :) I'm glad to have y'all's good thoughts going for us.

2005-08-29 [Delladreing]: you are welcome any day m'dear

2005-08-29 [a faerie tale]: Oh there seems to be moving occuring. I wish for your new home to welcome you and your family. ^-^

2005-08-30 [Fuu]: I wish you the best as well [Rondel]. I'm sure your new home will be quite welcoming to you and your family. ^-^

2005-08-30 [JWOlette]: yay rondel found a house and they are moving and ok i hav to ask whats up with the ferret thingy dela???

2005-08-30 [Fuu]: *perks up* Ferret?! Where's a ferret!?

2005-08-30 [Delladreing]: i was awarded the ferret of truth fir my work in educating the ignorant masses.

2005-08-30 [a faerie tale]: I check out there wiki. I wish I had a ferret of truth.

2005-08-30 [a faerie tale]: I check out there wiki. I wish I had a ferret of truth. *pouts*

2005-08-30 [Delladreing]: lol eh think of it as my wikis ferret and thus belongning to all of you on here

2005-08-30 [Azuri]: LOL ferrets are cool^.^ Ps congrats on that Dela.and yay for [Rondel]!

2005-08-31 [a faerie tale]: Nice. Sharing of the Ferret. I applaud you Dela. I could never do that. In fact, I would probably kill my ferret with love.

2005-08-31 [Delladreing]: lmao

2005-08-31 [Fuu]: Omg lmao

2005-08-31 [Delladreing]: hehe oh well then..try not to love this one to death...its sort of important lol

2005-08-31 [a faerie tale]: Yeah. That probably would be bad. But can we name him Jerret? Jerret the Ferret?

2005-08-31 [Delladreing]: if you really want

2005-08-31 [a faerie tale]: Sweet.

2005-08-31 [Delladreing]: :)

2005-08-31 [Fuu]: Cute little Jerret. :D

2005-08-31 [a faerie tale]: Hahaha...sweetness. *loves upon Dela*

2005-08-31 [Delladreing]: hehehe :D

2005-08-31 [Delladreing]: im amazed, we have roughly 70 members but only 37 people watch these pages, some of them arent even on the member list

2005-08-31 [a faerie tale]: hehe....that's pretty funny.

2005-08-31 [Delladreing]: tell me about it

2005-08-31 [a faerie tale]: Okay, well you have about seventy members of your wiki, playgans, but only thirty seven people watch your wiki, playgans and some of them aren't even members. We find this to to be amusing.

2005-09-01 [Azuri]: Wow thats kinda nifty^.^

2005-09-01 [sezmo lex]: hi i have been away for a long time as i have just bought a new house and my best friend had her first baby and its all bee a bit mad plus my house dont have the net at the mo so i am borrowing my brothers house! so howw do i get the banner in my house and what is the truth thing about?

2005-09-01 [Delladreing]: hmm what? *not with it just now*

2005-09-01 [a faerie tale]: Erm....huh?

2005-09-01 [Fuu]: eh? O.oo.O I'm confused.

2005-09-02 [JWOlette]: ahhhhhhhhhh im bored and kinda hyper run!! the pengiuns are takin over the world!!!!

2005-09-02 [Azuri]: Uh oh looks like my sanity maybe taking a leave of absence soon as my aunt wants to move to kentucky and stay with my g-parents for like 2 weeks while she trys to find a apt.......><

2005-09-02 [Delladreing]: oh dont worry about it, ive managed to deal without my sanity for years now

2005-09-02 [Rondel]: Thanks all, for your well-wishes. Ken's wounds are continuing to heal, and we've pretty much survived the move itself, though there's a LOT of recovering to be done yet before we can say that for sure. *sigh* But, I wanted you folks to know that your thoughts, prayers, and well-wishes have not been in vain. :)

2005-09-02 [a faerie tale]: *ugh* I went into the mall to buy pants. PANTS for Gods sake! And then I see this chick with a HUGE pentacle necklace, and I walk by her, and sarcasticaly go, "Nice necklace." And she says (I should probably say screamed) , "Are you mocking me? Because my religion is the oldest in the world, and it's because of you close-minded twits, that millions of my people were burned at the stake!" Needless to say, I flicked her off and contiued on my pants mission, all the while mentaly saying sorry to everyone I know who is seriuos about their religion.

2005-09-02 [a faerie tale]: *shudders*

2005-09-02 [Delladreing]: lol oh dear tale. and rondel i am as ever so very pleased to hear this

2005-09-02 [a faerie tale]: OH! Rondel! Your comment and mine were at the same time! I didn't see yours! Congratulations! I am sooo happy to hear this, and yesterdays Pants incident, is now in the dust. *huggles Rondel*

2005-09-02 [Azuri]: Yay for Rondel! Boo at stupid retard girl>.<*beats girl with stick*

2005-09-02 [Azuri]: MWAHAHAHHAHAH...Oh hehe^.^

2005-09-02 [Delladreing]: o.O if i wasnt cracked out on sugar and pain killers at the moment id probablt have something constructive to say

2005-09-02 [Azuri]: Lol^.^

2005-09-03 [JWOlette]: wow

2005-09-03 [Azuri]: *gets uber angry* Stupid dumbass people>.< Some dumbass who could see nothing in my picture but my face just called me fat......I hate Males....Then again generally i dont like people...well cept for you guys..

2005-09-03 [Delladreing]: bleh. my policu for such people is a) they are jealous in some way b) very insecure and need to pick on others and c) should therfore be ignored outright because they have no idea what they are talking about and will die painfully as soon as i locate them for you *Wanders off*

2005-09-03 [a faerie tale]: Gah. Silly people. *beats mean people with stick* I return the favor. :)

2005-09-03 [Azuri]: ^.^Thanks

2005-09-03 [Fuu]: [Rondel] I am sooo happy to hear that! ^_^ Oh and Faerie I dealt with something similiar in school. I was talking to one of my friends who is interesting in wicca and might practice it, she was asking me questions because she knows I'm wiccan and this girl came up to me and told me I didn't know a damn thing about her religion. That its the oldest in the world and to stop acting like I know stuff about wicca when I know "jack shit". Then the girl tried to tell my friend everything about wicca. Yea interesting arguement that led to.

2005-09-03 [a faerie tale]: ghaaaaaaaaa *beats mean people with more sticks*

2005-09-04 [Rondel]: Thanks for the supportive comments! Sorry about the encounter with the defensive girl at the mall... Talk about a chip on her shoulder! Cripes! I wonder if it's ever occurred to her that it's because of people like HERSELF that "her" religion is subject to such bigotry & discrimination. As for "dumbasses who can't see past the picture", I both loathe & pity them -- but I *do* have to point out that I've run into at least as many females who do that, as males. Don't reject the whole gender because of the bad apples; you'll miss out on the good ones that way, & wind up acting just like the defensive girl at the mall, prejudging people without knowing who they are or what they're about.

2005-09-04 [Rondel]: [Fuu], that sounds like one heck of an interesting encounter. What was it you were saying that set this "know-it-all" off, if I may ask? I've found many of them seem to have certain "buttons" that will set them off, if pushed. Like, talk about the *REAL* history of Wicca (Gardner, Sanders, Dorothy Clutterbuck, etc.), and many of 'em will go off at you because they want to play "my religion's older than yours", and get a feeling of validation from that.

2005-09-04 [JWOlette]: i hate people like that they are so annoying

2005-09-04 [a faerie tale]: Does anybody know of any good books? 'Cause I can't seem to find one. I think that's part of the problem. People want to rexearch the religin, go into a bookstore, and find a Playgan book, and then memorize every passage, believing it's fact. Maybe we could get a good book list here that we could refer people to if they were interested in the religion...

2005-09-04 [Delladreing]: many :) what exactly are you looking for?

2005-09-04 [a faerie tale]: Not quite sure. I began thinking about this yesterday when a friend of mine expressed interest in becoming Pagan. She asked me if I knew any good books to get.......and I'm clueless....... >.<

2005-09-04 [Delladreing]: Hmm well the history if Wicca then? I have found Ronald Hutton's "The Triumph of the Moon- A history of Modern Pagan Witchcraft" to be rahter good. *looks through the rest of her books* i always meant to get the "Recomended Reading" page up and going for playgans, but it always slipped my mind.

2005-09-04 [a faerie tale]: Bah. It happens to the best of us.

2005-09-04 [Delladreing]: "A Witch Alone" by Marian Green is another good one. *continues to pull books from various places*

2005-09-04 [CelticMoon]: lol like you havent got anoth to do without worrying about the reading page , you bussy lill bee you ;D

2005-09-04 [Delladreing]: *chuckles* quite right too *hugs*

2005-09-04 [CelticMoon]: Hay guess what ?

2005-09-04 [Delladreing]: what

2005-09-04 [Fuu]: [Rondel] I was talking about those things (Gardner, Sanders, etc..) and this girl burst into the conversation insulting me. Saying how dare I act as if I know things about ehr religion and stop acting like I am an actual witch because I don't know anything about "her religion".

2005-09-04 [Azuri]: v.v thats sad. alas people can only be educated if they are willing to other wise they ignore what they are told. she was one of those people and someday she might learn that she is a total playgan unfourtunatly for her its probly gonna result in her being humiliated

2005-09-04 [Fuu]: *sigh* Probably, but it was amusing what my friend said to the girl. That made my day.

2005-09-04 [Azuri]: Heh what did she say????

2005-09-04 [Fuu]: "Shut the f*** up will you? Who gives you permission to butt in on other people's conversations for one? And two she is my friend, I doubt she would lie to me unlike a person who I don't know. As far as I know you know jack shit about this religion, therefore I have no reason what so ever to bother listening to what you have to say. I trust my friends, not idiots who have no common decency left in their brains." And that is a direct quote too.

2005-09-04 [a faerie tale]: Nice. I like this person already.

2005-09-05 [Avoral]: It's funny how people instantly translate liberalism to enlightenment.

2005-09-05 [Azuri]: thats great hehe^.^tis absolute maddness. some people need to be hanged by their toes and smacked around a bit^.^ Maybe it will knock common sense or reason into their heads either one would be good really^.^

2005-09-05 [Avoral]: Oh yeah.

2005-09-05 [Delladreing]: ah Avy, long time no see on my humble little wiki

2005-09-05 [a faerie tale]: Oh, [Pyra] Says Hi and Bye to ya. She's off at Stuart Hall Boarding School For Girls.

2005-09-05 [Delladreing]: oh right ok then. back at her then lol

2005-09-05 [a faerie tale]: Erm...I'm sure she meant it for you too Dela, but it was directed at Avy....o.O

2005-09-05 [Delladreing]: lol *knows* i was being random :p

2005-09-05 [a faerie tale]: O.o'

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: lol the randomness pleases me XD

2005-09-05 [Delladreing]: its fun to confuse people and im bored -.-

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: Yeah I am too >.<

2005-09-05 [Delladreing]: *sighs*

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: *thinks of something to do*

2005-09-05 [Delladreing]: *sleeps*

2005-09-05 [JWOlette]: hey what are y'all up to

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: being bored >.<

2005-09-05 [JWOlette]: sounds like the same thing im up to

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: wow what a coincidence *goes off into playgal mode* like the fates meant it to be man o_O

2005-09-05 [JWOlette]: i dont believe in fate everything happens for a reason

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: I think that too

2005-09-05 [JWOlette]: thats kool

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: XD

2005-09-05 [JWOlette]: im bored

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: Yeah me too listening to music now though so it's not that bad..."I predict a riot!!" love that song

2005-09-05 [Delladreing]: KAISER CHEIFS! *DANCES*

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: I love them!!!

2005-09-05 [Delladreing]: :D

2005-09-05 [sequeena_rae]: I've only just discovered them but they are brilliant XD

2005-09-06 [a faerie tale]: Gah...School begins tomorrow. >.<

2005-09-06 [Fuu]: School already started for me last week. We started on Thurs instead of tomorrow. >.< the school district I live in sucks. And so does my school. And the football team. But hey at least the marching band doesn't, or the guard.

2005-09-06 [a faerie tale]: Lol, luckily my school has an amazing theatre department, or else I'd be DEAD.

2005-09-06 [Azuri]: Blah i start college up tommarow it feels like the night before my first day of highschool>.< at least i knew people at my highschool*tear*

2005-09-06 [Delladreing]: *hugs* you'll be fine :) in saying that I expect the same reasurance in two weeks when i start mine lol

2005-09-06 [Azuri]: ^.^ Of course! Your smart youll do fine^.^ Im at college right now well i supose i should get back to the learning now that break is over:D

2005-09-06 [Delladreing]: jejeje oh dear how little you all really know me >.>

2005-09-06 [Azuri]: ^.^ Well we think your smart(at least i do) and nice well unless someone should do the unforgivable and cross you:D Ah i like being in a computer lab for a class:D

2005-09-06 [Delladreing]: hehe ok then, and yes quite right.

2005-09-06 [sequeena_rae]: Bleh I had an induction today and I am knackered...I have another induction tomorrow then school starts thursday >.< NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

2005-09-06 [Delladreing]: bleh >.>

2005-09-06 [sequeena_rae]: I know *rolls eyes* I can't remember what the woman was talking about

2005-09-06 [a faerie tale]: Ugh. Reminds me of my math logic teacher. That man talks so fast, you can't absorb ANYTHING.

2005-09-06 [Fuu]: O.oo.O Teacher = evil

2005-09-06 [Azuri]: Lol my teacher today has a weird rasphy voice i thought when she turned the lights outtoday for the introduction thing i was gonna go bedy bye it was 8 in the morning>.<

2005-09-06 [sequeena_rae]: lol my problem was there were 7 speakers one after the other so I didn't have time to absorb the information one had said before another started talking >.<

2005-09-06 [Fuu]: O.oo.O I would've died

2005-09-06 [sequeena_rae]: I nearly did lol and then they called my name out and I was like "Eh? What's going on?"

2005-09-06 [Azuri]: Lol geez I would have died too

2005-09-07 [Fuu]: O.oo.O OMG I probably would have done the exact same thing as you.

2005-09-07 [Azuri]: Heh what did they want???

2005-09-07 [sequeena_rae]: Just telling us everything that goes on at the college and stuff lol had one sexy police officer though *grin*....They called my name to send me to my tutor XD

2005-09-07 [Rondel]: [Fuu] -- nice quote from your friend, in response to the Playgan at school. As for recommended reading, anyone here ever read "Drawing Down the Moon"? It's a useful overview of pagan paths (neopagan in particular) and their history. For an actual introduction to Wicca, I still favour Starhawk's "Spiral Dance", or Scott Cunningham -- but then, my introduction was in the US, so I'm not as familiar with the UK authors (other than the Farrars, of course, and of course the old originals).

2005-09-07 [sequeena_rae]: I like Fiona Horne but she's kind of new age but I like her style.

2005-09-08 [sezmo lex]: maybe not a playgan story but very rude anyway! i am applying for new jobs and you know on the bottom of all the forms it say"we are a equal oppertuiinets group blar balr on and on and on" i s tick the "other" box and clearly wright Pagan, when i get to the interview the 17 year old interviewing me(which anojed me a little anyway) says "oh ye religon not hobby, Pagan aint no religon your ment to but christian,muslin or jew here"

2005-09-08 [sezmo lex]: i tryed i really did but i also really wanted the job!!! it ended me walking out after saying some very un-nice things and probably being black listed for the rest of my life!

2005-09-08 [Delladreing]: :\ ... id say something constructive, but i am being shoved out the door by an imaptient red-head, be assured though when i come back i have plent to say!

2005-09-08 [hanhepi]: sezmo: sounds like you were interviewed by a moron. but at a company where they let 17 year olds do the interviews, i guess you can't expect much different. i'd probably said "well, according to most christians, pagans are devil worshipers, so apparenly it IS a religion." in the same situation. why on earth did they ask you for your religion on a job aplication anyway?its really none of their buisness...

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: I haven't read any of Fiona Horne's books, though I have interacted with her in person; you see, when we moved to Australia, my husband's last remaining guitar (we'd given the rest away for the move) was stolen, & he was depressed to the point of considering giving up music (this, after he'd already written over 100 songs, & recorded 2 full instrumental albums...) -- so I put out a call for help among my pagan friends & contacts, & they did the same among theirs, with the result that Fiona Horne wound up sending my husband her old guitar. It's not as nice as the one that was stolen, but it kept him making music, & affirmed him in doing so. That was how we met Fiona Horne; after that, we

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: wound up putting up some posters to let people know about her book tour (this was in 1999, when "Witch" came out, before she moved to the US), & then attended her local booksigning. She did a ritual at the gathering, & needed someone familiar with both the music & the ritual style, to help with calling quarters, so Ken ([BarleySinger], my husband) wound up taking one of the directions, & participating in the ritual. Based on what I saw of her in the course of those interactions, I'd say she's a pretty decent person, committed to "walking her talk", so to speak -- but I haven't read her books, so I can't really vouch for her writings, only the person behind them. :/

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: As for that interview, [sezmo lex], there are several things wrong -- enough so that if you're in the US, I'd advise you to consult your local ACLU, as you may have a discrimination case against the company. First of all, in the US (at least), it's illegal to ask a person their religion in connection with a job interview, unless it's directly connected with the job (e.g. priests, etc. - you can't even ask the religion of the church janitor, or a religious studies teacher). Secondly, the appropriate response is "it says here that you're an Equal Opportunity Employer -- why are you asking my religion in the first place? And, having done so, what gives you the idea that you have the right to

2005-09-08 [I stabbith ye]: They ask you your religion on forms over here in the UK...but they put it as Optional...And it usually doesn't matter anyway...I've always been accepted in places where they know my religion. Then again the UK is alot less religious than the U.S.A. Christians over here are lucky if they go to church once in their lifetime :P

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: treat one set of religions as valid, and exclude all others -- including religions legally recognized as such by the government?" The fact that you didn't respond that way at the time doesn't preclude you from discussing the matter with an attorney (hence my suggestion of the ACLU), as a case of religious discrimination. Because of inappropriate forms, on the part of the company, & bigotry on the part of the interviewer, your potential employment was affected; that's not right, & almost certainly not legal -- not to mention a hardship, in today's job market. They need a wakeup call, & you're in a good position to give it to them. If I were you, I'd do so.

2005-09-08 [I stabbith ye]: But then again you've got to look at it from the stress and finacial side...Maybe Sezmo can't afford it, or maybe there isn't enough time for all that. I know if it were me I'd probably do alot of complaining, but wouldn't bother with an actual law suit due to the hassel...I did that once with a homosexual thing...I mean that took alot out of me

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: That's why I suggested the ACLU -- they'd pursue a case like that for you, it's not the same as retaining a private attorney.

2005-09-08 [I stabbith ye]: Ooooh...problem is you then have to prove (your word against theirs) that they did discriminate, and then there were those un pleasent things that were said by sezmo lol, verbal abuse counter claim

2005-09-08 [Delladreing]: ...*considers* sll of the above, I am not a real fan of Fiona Hornes books, she may very well be a good and decvent person, but her writing definately lacks something, although I didnt try to wash my hands with methelated spirits like I did after reading Silver Ravenwolfs books...*shudders* and as for all the above Nathan you are right, we are lucky in that people dont descriminate as much. When a teacher found out my beliefs she refused to teach me, I still dont know how she found out as I am a "closet witch" at home and in the school/work place, but mainly becasuse I dont see why people have to know.

2005-09-08 [I stabbith ye]: People know all about me due to my family history...we're famous in our town *rolls eyes* Not that any one is bothered anyway lol

2005-09-08 [Delladreing]: even then, my ex ([Elvómir]) and his family dont bother to tell people their faith, its nothing special, faith is a private and personal thing.

2005-09-08 [I stabbith ye]: I agree...as long as your not born into one thats broadcasted it before you got a chance to keep it secret lol ;)....Anyhoopy I g2g ttyl Fiona ^_^

2005-09-08 [Azuri]: <---closet witch too would say more but im suposta be paying attenction in class now^.^

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: I do agree that the saying of "unpleasant things" would not help the case -- but it can't hurt to talk it over with an ACLU lawyer, and find out IF there is a case, and whether they consider it worth pursuing. There may be documentation, in the form of records regarding the course of the interview, which could be subpoenaed. As for Fiona Horne, as I said, I haven't read her books, but she seems a decent person (or was several years ago, before she went Hollywood, an act that can really change a person's life). But that doesn't necessarily mean she's good at instructing people in the essentials of her religion. Silver Ravenwolf is on my "DO NOT READ, YOU'LL ONLY HAVE TO UNLEARN IT" list.

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: In fact, she (Silver Ravenwolf) EXEMPLIFIES that list. On the other hand, one book I WOULD recommend, though it's only tangentially related, is "Satanism in America: How the Devil Got Much More Than His Due", which does an excellent job of debunking the claims of those who see satanism / occultist abuse EVERYWHERE, & go around talking about babies being sacrificed, etc. Very useful weapon in the arsenal of knowledge. Also on the tangentially related list would be P.E.I. Bonewitz' "Real Magic". &, for that matter, "The Universe is a Green Dragon", by a cosmologist whose name I forget at the moment. Those have useful concepts in them. But for sheer info on neopagan religions in general,

2005-09-08 [sequeena_rae]: Well Fiona Horne is really the only person I have read because I'm new to this...Anything you can recommend?

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: nothing I've seen yet can compete with the encyclopedic nature of "Drawing Down the Moon".

2005-09-08 [Delladreing]: I like the books by Marian Green: A Witch Alone was particularly good I thought

2005-09-08 [sequeena_rae]: Thanks I'll check them out

2005-09-08 [Rondel]: As mentioned above, I tend to favour "The Spiral Dance", though you have to realize that you're looking at one particular branch of Wicca there, and of course Scott Cunningham's still quite good for the basics. Mostly, though, my strongest suggestion is to evaluate everything you read, in terms of whether it makes sense to you. Don't just blindly accept anything. Paganism is about YOUR relationship with nature, not about blindly following the latest trendy book by the latest trendy author. Oh, and I *am* fond of "Dark Goddesses", though again, that's specialized, not really a general primer.

2005-09-08 [Azuri]: <--Has read Ravenwolf and wishes she could unlearn that>.< My god all that women does is play the pity me the people of my religion were pursicuted card>.<

2005-09-08 [hanhepi]: sounds like Ravenwolf is to Wicca what Wolf Moondance is to natives. is ravenwolf one of those authours who seem to insist that you should just start trying to do cerimonies and messing with things you have no buisness messing with? "congratulations, you read my book you are now authorized to call faries! watch out for the black horned faries i neglected to mention anywhere in my book" kind of authors?

2005-09-08 [Delladreing]: yes, put it this way *lights all of ravenwolfs books and dances ina cirlce around them whooping* theres a cleansing ritual for you!

2005-09-08 [Azuri]: unfourtunatly i havent read much else other than hers its sad i havent really read anything because of my home conditions i have no where to put the books and i cant even find a decent library around here now*tear*

2005-09-08 [Delladreing]: welcome to my world. my room is raided every now and then. to prevent my things being found ive sectioned off parts of my furniture, all my books are now hidden down the back of my bookcase

2005-09-08 [hanhepi]: you have to hide your books? why?

2005-09-08 [Delladreing]: i am a "closet witch", my family are not fond of the pagan paths. infact the last time i tried to tell them about my faith they all but disowned me, so now i keep my tongue to myself and my faith with it, its easier that way

2005-09-08 [hanhepi]: ahhh. well, thats weird. shitty too.

2005-09-08 [Delladreing]: tell me about it lol, but it was never a "happy home" to begin with, so i will do anything to keep the peace, even denying my faith a lot of them time, which is sad because my faith is the only thing i really have at times.

2005-09-08 [Azuri]: How do you section off things??? My g-ma is kinda snoopy but im suposta be gettinga book case for all my books(acually mangas>.< some books) and i want to get some more books but i need somewhere to put them and id like to put up a alter but i dont know that i can*tear*

2005-09-08 [Azuri]: my g-ma or cousin would just mess it up. id love to tell them but cant because like delas family they would all but disown me and id get preached at every day i lived there.

2005-09-09 [nokaredes]: ...I know I haven't talked in a while, but I think everyone here should go to http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ especially the sermons section! >_<

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: *eyes the link* holy mother of...what the hell was that o.O!! and as for sectionining things off, i did it by getting pieces of cardboard (sometimes even really thin cut wood) sticking my books at the very back of my bookcase and then wedging the covers into the bookcase so they were covered and then putting books on top. its the only way i can keep them hidden, i tried putting them in drawers but one day i came home to find my stuff lying around that had been in the base of my drawrs, my mother thankfully had missed the piece of wood at the bottom, if she had lifted that up and found about 60 odd books on paganims i think she may have murdered me.

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: please please please tell me that website is a joke website like truechristian.com please tell me its a sick joke of some kind. i can barely read the pages, they're burning my eyes, oh god the madness, the MADNESS @_@

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: LANDOVER BAPTIST IS A PARODY SITE!!! I've encountered this site (and this response to it) before. The problem is that there ARE churches (like the one my husband's family attends) which are so much like the stuff put forth on that site that it's hard to tell that it's satire. As one of my favorite quotes (Pete Seeger?) says, "Some people you don't have to satirize, ya just quote 'em."

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: Altar options for the "closet witch" -- if you can, get a bed with drawers, a cupboard with a door, or some such, & you can put your "altar space" in there. But, the other key is to use symbolism that is of meaning to you, & isn't obtrusively pagan to others. Most folks won't blink at your having a "box of treasures", or something like that, where you keep "some pretty rocks", a feather, a pretty little jar of water (maybe sea water, maybe with a drop of essential oil in it...) -- or better yet, one of those essential oil warmers that use a candle under a container of water to which you add the essential oil. Then you've got another excuse for including a candle. Presto, all 4 elements!

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: For books, the classic option, (as any teenage boy hiding porno mags can tell you) is between your mattress & box spring. Simpler answers, depending on level of snoopiness, include simply double-shelving your books (one set in front of the others), and if anyone asks why you do it, tell them you ran out of space. Of course, I do that anyway, because even after paring my library down to a tiny fraction of its original size, it doesn't fit my available bookcase space unless I doubleshelve. You can also slide your mattress over slightly from the wall, and make the bed with the sheet going right over the books (as long as they're in there the narrow way with no pressure on the pages).

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: I tried hiding thing under the matress, it didn't work my mother had the initiative to look there too -.- "and what the hell is this?!", that was not a fun night to deal with. so now i move my stuff about a lot incase she decides to have a look around while i'm out. i had a lock fitted to my door once, i came home and found it was gone *sighs* but i suppose my circumstances could always be worse so i shant complain much

2005-09-09 [nokaredes]: ...My mom cleaned out my room while I was on vacation. My new plan is to keep my rocks on me (in my backpack) and to stash my books in a box in my friend's car trunk. ^_^

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: Have you tried a footlocker with a padlock? As for the altar, I stand by my main piece of advice -- choose things that have meaning to you (earth can be represented by things as "unobviously pagan" as a blue glass marble painted with green continents -- I've known many pagans who have one), and they just look like a novelty or souvenier to someone who doesn't know. I've always collected bits and pieces of stuff -- beach rocks, feathers,etc. -- and so the idea of having to worry about one's altar stuff sounds to me like the result of choosing altarpieces that are too obvious for your situation.

2005-09-09 [Avoral]: Ha! I'll not lock my feet.

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: ....*takes a deep breath* *decides better against making any comment* hehe :p

2005-09-09 [Avoral]: If that had anything to do with a chastity belt... Well, only if you get to unlock it. ^_^

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: ... ... no nothing like that lol

2005-09-09 [Avoral]: Aww! Oh well.

2005-09-09 [Azuri]: I have a bunch of figurens that at one point i had tried to make a alter in my room at home with but my mom just comes into my room and cleans(shes weird like that) and would put stuff up there that i didnt want there so it was all very hard and before i moved i wasnt aloud to have candles so i gave all but like 4 ways*sigh* all my incense too but my g-ma doesnt kno of hole in the carpet incident so i can have them again and there is a clean space above my bed i could defently use or the dresser part that closes with a lid that would be niffty if it werent stuffed full of barbies right now>.< Gah 4 yr olds anway that site is crazyness mass amounts i dont see why people both making those

2005-09-09 [Azuri]: "joke" sites. Blah they make me mad because i kno that there are acually people out there who think like that.*goes off to clean space to make alter*

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: Mind you, I'll be really direct here and say *my* problem was not with a parent who "cleaned" and/or raided my room, but with one who didn't give two hoots about what I did, as long as it didn't interfere with HER chosen form of escapism -- so I may not be getting my head entirely around the problem here. I still find it difficult to envision a situation in which you couldn't have SOMETHING that has religious significance to you, as an altarpiece, without arousing suspicion, but that's partly because the things that are significant to me are not restricted to obviously "pagan" imagery -- to the extent that they have aroused no suspicion in anyone from my parents' priest to my fundy in-laws.

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: i have candles in my room, as far as my mother is concerned thats condeming proof

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: But, I also have to say that if you're allowed no personal or private space, to the extent that you can't even have a lockbox for your important treasures (whatever they may be), the words "emancipated minor" do start to cross my mind. I find it difficult to envision circumstances (other than having gotten mixed up in a life-threatening drug habit, perhaps) that would justify that kind of behaviour on a parent's part. :( I wouldn't be happy if my daughter converted to, for instance, fundamentalist bigotry in the name of any of the "religions of the Book", but I wouldn't raid her room (other than to make sure nothing unwanted is growing in there -- & I don't mean volitional plantings...).

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: Your mother is nuts, Dela. Pardon me, but I can't think of another way to put it, at this time of night.

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: heh, snap. and im not being flippant or joking in the least. im the whore of the anti christ as far as she is concerned.

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: Also, have you tried swapping around the dustcovers on your books? That's one answer for hardbacks... ...unless the person is nosy enough to actually flip through the books, that can do a lot. When I was in school, we had to cover our textbooks, and make our own dustjackets, so I can't help wondering if you couldn't transplant an old used textbook cover (complete with in-class doodles, etc.) to another book, using the "Purloined Letter" approach of "hiding things in plain sight".

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: heh i either stipped all my books of their covers or covered them up in paper, you name it ive tried it

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: I believe you, and I stand by my statement. That's not a sane/rational viewpoint. Period. It is a form of religious lunacy, with a formal diagnostic code in medical parlance. But then, I've got other reasons to believe that of your mom... :( {{{HUGS}}} ...mine, on the other hand, kept holy water on the pump organ in the living room, & would have been surprised if I *didn't* have candles in my room --- power goes out sometime, & I had a bad fear of the dark when I was younger, as well as being more into historical recreationist stuff than rechargeable flashlights. I was used to getting asked if I was a satanist because of my HOBBY (historical re-enactment stuff) - which Mom still does.

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: *hugs* yea well, you either let it kill you, or you rise up out the ashes, i dont really see what other choice there is.

2005-09-09 [Rondel]: This, in a household where my step-father was studying for the priesthood, mind you... LOL ...so it wasn't exactly an assumption that anyone in my home would leap to. Candles were LIGHT SOURCES, nothing more, nothing less. Sometimes I'd keep 'em in the bath, for relaxing soaks. Add some incense/essential oils, and you can do a full invocation of the 4 elements in the bath, for those who haven't considered this option... *chuckle* -- but nothing's gonna help if your folks are nuts, ready to assume the worst of you regardless -- nothing other than to get out of that environment ASAP, & wear whatever "mask" you have to while at home. :( I *hate* parents like that. That's not loving.

2005-09-09 [Delladreing]: of course its not loving, its insanity and its harmful. my family are protestant, and were fairly liberal, until i did something wrong of-course. atempting to follow another religion openly was one of the biggest mistakes i ever could have made.