2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: No, no I am glad you did. Thanks!

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]: Well, I can't spell for crap and I am usually half brain-dead and/or trying to pay attention to 3 kids while I'm creating wikis...so yeah...I make a lot of mistakes, hehe.

2008-10-23 [Lothuriel]:

2008-10-29 [Hedda]: I suggest we drop:
-EPRM Elderly Male Reference
-EPRM Elderly Female Reference

And instead have one face reference contest.

The reason is that it's better to have a contest were everyone can compete and it makes no sense to split up old, young, females and males in different contests. For the body part contests, we want all kinds of people, so then suddenly having a split in another way makes no sense.

2008-11-02 [*Phoenix*]: I have my landscape refrence wiki but what do we with it seens how it's not open yet?

2008-11-03 [Hedda]: I added it to Nature Reference Pictures. You're welcome to extend it as you wish and compete with it when the landscape contest starts.

2008-11-05 [*Phoenix*]: Yay! Thanks so much! *hugs* I have some more really cool pics to add to it...

2008-11-05 [Lothuriel]: As for the Elderly references, I thought they'd be a good idea simply because of the differences in anatomy of most elderly people. Their stances are different, their body types are much different and more difficult to draw. If you want me to remove them, it's not a problem. I can fix up the facial features one tomorrw evening unless you've already done so.

2008-11-05 [Hedda]: [Lothuriel]: I agree that we should have pictures of old people. But we should try to get these photos into the other contests and let them compete against the rest. Same goes with photos of people of different races.

My idea is that we should have themes that everyone can do a part of. So it's much better to have a furniture contest than a contest of animals, objects and people from Sri Lanka.

2008-11-05 [Lothuriel]: I see what you mean. It's not a problem. I am at work right now but, when I get home I'll fix it. ^__^

2009-01-11 [Hedda]: Oups, forgot that. For now I'll sort them in order of deadlines. There are two groups of people who come to this page:
1) People who want to compete.
2) People who want to see a list of previous submissions.

I think the group 2 is the main one and people from 1 are often a part of 2, so therefore I make the list sorted like this. With more entries, I guess it makes sense to have the newest contests on top.

2009-01-15 [Lothuriel]: I edited the Architecture wiki in case we decide to use it later

2009-03-03 [Lothuriel]: So [Hedda], are we going to add a Nature, tree, rock, etc reference? Or are we sticking to landscapes to include all that in there? I am getting ready to add a couple more, if you guys don't like them, I will remove, ^___^

2009-03-04 [Hedda]: What about:
March: clothing
April: Weapons
May: People at work
?

It's a pretty different mix.

2009-03-11 [Lothuriel]: That sounds good. I added Props, Textures and Vehicles and removed the two from suggestions that had already been set in motion.

2009-03-19 [Daring Silence]: You should do eye reference (if you havent done it already.) I'm always looking for eye pics to look at.

2009-03-19 [Daring Silence]: Nvm. I saw some. :)

2009-03-20 [Lothuriel]: Why is the weapons one only open until April 27th?

2009-03-24 [Alexi Ice]: Heya.

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: Helllew!

2009-03-24 [Hedda]: We have a deadline every month. The weapons one happens to have the deadline that month.

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: I know that :P I got a little confused about that. I thought at first, we had 2 for the month of April but, we didn't.

And maybe it's just a nit-pick but, I don't like the "Pre-Opened" category. If it's opened, it's opened. I think we should remove it, it is redundant.

2009-03-24 [Hedda]: Oh, yes! Very true. Fixed!

I thought about a contest about cans and bottles. I have a pretty big liquor bottle collection that I want to document. Maybe not so Elftown themed though...

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: Do you think those would go into Props? 

And thank you for fixing that. I didn't want to jump ahead and just do it, ya know?

2009-03-24 [nehirwen]: Why is it not Elftown themed? Fantasy figures etc drink liquor too.

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: huh? Why is what not fantasy themed?

2009-03-24 [nehirwen]: See the last part of hedda's last comment. ;)

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: Another question...

Didn't we have a landscape category up at one time?

2009-03-24 [Alexi Ice]: The cans and bottles might be cool too, a food refernce one might as well. Sometimes I see birthday themed Wiki pages that might need pictures of a bithday cake or something...*Brainstorming*

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: Hmmmm....good idea!

2009-03-24 [Chrysilla]: I agree with the idea of having categories in the Landscapes contest. It will be much easier for the one looking for a certain type of reference picture to find what he needs, instead of wasting time looking at every stock. I can think of some categories and do whatever else is needed :)

2009-03-24 [nehirwen]: You mean art inspired by/made from the pictures? (this is not elftown graphics..)
Food is a good idea though, it's difficult to draw/paint that without reference.

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: I will fill those wikis in when I get home from work. :P

2009-03-24 [Alexi Ice]: Alright! I am going to go put the next sessions on watch so I can mod a bit, is that alright with you Loth?

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: Certainly

2009-03-24 [nehirwen]: The idea was Akane helping out the ECM, and me to move on to this actually. :p

2009-03-24 [Lothuriel]: oh, sorry I will let her know then! ^__^

2009-03-24 [nehirwen]: I already did. :)

2009-03-24 [Alexi Ice]: ^^ No worries...! I found another project I want to infiltrate, so it's alright. Lol.

2009-03-24 [windowframe]: "Infiltrate"?

2009-03-24 [Chimes]: Never a good word, that. XD Also, which project?

2009-03-24 [Alexi Ice]: It's my own kind of inside joke...kind of like my thing with Linderel and the Daily poem, I like to weed my way into things. I want to become a part of the Herald.

2009-03-24 [Chimes]: The Herald isn't official(ish, well it's debatable), message me about it.

2009-04-15 [Alexi Ice]: So like I said before...>> Whatcha need help with, Loth?

2009-04-15 [Alexi Ice]: Can we do a hand reference too? I am fascinated with hands (Mostly the veins)

2009-04-15 [Chimes]: It'll probably happen somewhere along the line.

2009-05-06 [Cillamoon]: Has a EPRM Cloud Reference been done before? If not, that would be my suggestion to do that too. Or something like EPRM Sky References.

2009-05-06 [Chimes]: Sky would be better than just clouds. :) I think, anyway.

2009-05-06 [Cillamoon]: Now that I have been thinking about it, I do like sky better than just clouds, because the sky can have clouds in it, but to look at JUST a cloud....eh. So I agree with you Chimes, Sky References would be pretty cool.

2009-05-06 [Lothuriel]: I'm on it! ^__^

2009-05-06 [Cillamoon]: Wheee!!!!!

2009-05-22 [Cillamoon]: Hey guys, I have a whole bunch of squirrel images I would like to submit to Reference Pictures if that ever comes up as a topic. Let me know ^_^ Thanks!

2009-05-22 [Lothuriel]: You can submit them on the submissions wiki listed on reference pictures ^__^

2009-05-22 [Cillamoon]: Awesome! Thank you!!!

2009-05-22 [Lothuriel]: No problem!! ^__^

2009-08-24 [Hedda]: It's time to add a new contest pretty soon. What about post-apocalyptic images?

And then maybe live role playing images?

Followed by plant reference?

2009-08-24 [Hedda]: Eh... Skip that plant reference contest at that time. We should announce that with deadline in next August so that people have plenty of time to picture plants in/of all seasons.

2009-08-24 [windowframe]: Bah! You keep skipping or postponing all the ones I want to enter. :P

2009-08-24 [nehirwen]: I'll prepare them tomorrow. We can wait a month to add the third contest I think, as the arm reference is still going on.

2009-08-24 [Hedda]: [windowframe]: What do you want to enter?

2009-08-24 [windowframe]: The Plant one. But I'm not quite sure what you're saying about that one now - that it should start now, with a deadline next August, so it runs for a whole year, or that it shouldn't start for a while?

2009-08-24 [Hedda]: I say that we should start it now, but have the deadline one year away. So that people can build up their pages for a full year.

2009-08-24 [windowframe]: *agrees with that* :D

2009-10-08 [Lothuriel]: I know not everyone has Fall colors right now but, would it be feasible to set an EPRM Fall Reference?

2009-10-09 [Hedda]: We can have one open until next November, I guess.

2009-10-10 [Lothuriel]: Awesome! I will talk to [nehiwren] about it.

2009-10-11 [nehirwen]: I'll set it up tomorrow. :)

2009-11-28 [Lothuriel]: ooh fungus. sPam likey...

2009-12-12 [Nioniel]: :)

2009-12-28 [*Phoenix*]: Can we enter the future contests or do we have to wait?

2009-12-28 [nehirwen]: It's in the list of open contests, so yes, you can enter. :)

2009-12-28 [*Phoenix*]: It might be cool to do a "Figurine" contest with things like carousel horses or dragon figurines, like breakable collectible things. I would LOVE to do one like that. I can set it up if you'd like....

2009-12-29 [*Phoenix*]: So I can do the prop and vehicle ones? *eyes light up*

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: If they are not copywritten items (things that are the intellectual or artistic property of other artists) then you may photograph them and claim them as your own. Things within this category are nature, animals, etc.

2009-12-29 [*Phoenix*]: so would my Pontiac be considered copyrighted if I took a picture of the entire car?

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: YES! If you are not the creator of the object, if another person, another artist created the object, such as a vehicle, figurine, jewelry, toys, CDs, paintings, books, brand-named musical instruments, hardware, tools, the tread pattern on tires, flatware, electronics, EVERYTHING that YOU DID NOT CREATE, sans things naturally occuring in nature such as rain, snow, sleet, hail, dirt, pets, bugs, clouds, leaves, trees, lakes, mountains, the sun, moon, stars, the human body (assuming that it's yours, no one else's may be submitted under your name without a model-release form), snakes, lizards, etcetera...I don't know how to explain this any better!

2009-12-29 [nehirwen]: Eh..making a photo of an object isn't claiming you made the object. O.o
And as long as the piece/thing you make a photo of is a public thing it's OK (buildings, cars, statue in the park, stuff you bought, whatever).
There are some photos you could make you're not allowed to make a profit of though. (like photos of the Eiffel Tower I believe).
But we're not making any money here, so it's OK.
The Pontiac would be perfectly fine to submit.

2009-12-29 [windowframe]: Presumably statues in museums (still public, right?) and statues that were made before copyright even existed are also fine. <_< But be careful with statues in museums because some of them are on loan from private collections, and you're supposed to take photos of those ones. (it should tell you on the plaque if it's from a private collection). How about other forms of art in museums? Paintings, photographs, etc. ?

2009-12-29 [nehirwen]: Well, paintings and photographs aren't that interesting for the reference pictures, it's better to actually visit the museum if you want to learn techniques or whatever from those (or look them up online). It would be silly to make a photo of a photo and submit it as 'your' photo anyway, imo. x)

2009-12-29 [windowframe]: And you can think of no other use for paintings and photos than learning techniques from them? :P I can see why you might want a painting in a photomanip, and for the same reason why you might want a framed photograph - not for the content of that specific photograph, but because you wanted a painting/photograph on the wall of the manip you were working on, etc. Or perhaps for the same reason for your drawing. You're drawing a corridor, and you want a painting on the wall, but the perspective is giving you a problem so... dun dun DUUUUN. You go find a reference. Shocker. :P

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: Neh; making/taking a photo and then putting it in the public domain is. We may not be recieving payment from people that use the photos we submit, but the people that use them may be making money off of them. 

Because the photos that we are adding to Reference Pictures are ones that we are putting into the public domain, which then become freely usable by anyone, it really is not okay for us to do that. Read up on copywrite laws, patents, intellectual property and such. Things, especially symbols that are trademarked, such as the "mustang," on cars is the creator of that symbol's property. 

Just because some things are in the public eye, that does not mean that they are in the public domain. You can't take and submit pictures of Pizza Hut. Everyone knows what Pizza Hut is, but it is illegal to take a photo and to attempt to put it in the public domain. Taking a photo and saying "hey, everyone, look what I did while I was at Pizza Hut" and then displaying the photos for all to see is fine, so long as you're not saying "alright, I took these photos, so now them and all of the content in them are free for all the world to use." The ability to point a camera at something that is copywritten does not give anyone the right to claim it as their own, which is why these things are unacceptable. Go onto a search engine and search for images that are free for use. There will not be many, and many of the ones that are out there have fine print on the web pages stating that the creator of the artwork still needs payment before others can use it as their own. 

I really don't know what else I can say that would help you all to understand. I know that I have had this conversation on this site before, perhaps if I can find the wiki that it took place on, I could copy/paste the explaining that I did there.

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]:
<sup>If you buy a card with someone's artwork on it, you own the card -- not the right to make copies of the picture on it. If you buy a cassette tape with a song recorded on it, you own the CD -- not the right to play the song in the background on your TV advertisement (or web page). If you buy a book, you have the right to read it, loan it, or use it to prop up the wobbly leg on your table; but you don't have the right to photocopy it, write about the characters in the story, or even draw pictures of them, unless the copyright holder says you can.

Only the copyright holder has that right to copy and/or distribute copies of the thing they've created.</sup>

- taken from Copyright and Intellectual Property

2009-12-29 [windowframe]: Neh; making/taking a photo and then putting it in the public domain is. We may not be recieving payment from people that use the photos we submit, but the people that use them may be making money off of them. 

Surely that's their problem, not ours? They're the ones using them incorrectly, and as long as we state somewhere that they shouldn't/can't be used to make money, then I don't see what the problem is on our part - we told them not to, and they ignored us. Blaming us for that is like someone blaming a bank for running up a huge credit card bill. In all the cases I've read of, say, car companies getting uppity about their cars and logos it's because someone is attempting to use photos for profit, and that's the person they go after - not the person who took the photo, or made it available, just the one trying to use it to make money. 

I'm not sure about making non-profit photo manips with the images (though that probably counts as transformative use rather than derivative use, so that should be fine too), but I think using them as references counts as Fair Use as long as they don't then try to sell the art.

And pizza hut buildings aren't necessarily copyrighted. Their logo is. Which I'm sure Nehi knows. Obviously the part about 'anything you own' was wrong, but the rest is either right or sits in a huge grey area. For instance, some statues in parks are apparently copyrighted. But if it's a replica of a Donatello, then... tough? And as for books - I'm pretty sure I could take photo of the inside of Pride and Prejudice and not be breaking copyright since... it's in the public domain now. Not all books are copyrighted.

Perhaps the reason you feel you can't get us to understand is because we're not actually all talking about quite the same thing. And the fact that we're disagreeing with you doesn't mean we don't understand, it just means we disagree. :P

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: ^*shrug*

I'm beginning to get fairly frustrated with the conversation, and rather than become snippity, I'd prefer to simply leave it at this;

I enjoy being one of the people that contributes to Reference Pictures and deals with the Reference Pictures Submissions, badging and so on. Having spent a lot of time learning about copyright laws and what is and is not allowed to be added to the public domain by the general public, I do not feel comfortable adding certain images into our database/the public domain. There are a few other people that also work in Reference Pictures, and should the general opinion of other people running it be that these things are fine to be added, then they can add them. I know what my understanding of the law is, and I do not want to be considered liable for what others may choose to do with the photos in question being added. That said, I will happily continue to add photos that are in no way in question of violating any copyright laws. 

This conversation was in no way intended to be taken as any sort of slight against anyone, hopefully everyone involved understands that I am just looking out for the general welfare of the contributors, the Reference Pictures workers, the site, and those who may choose to use the photos in inappropriate and illegal ways should they be added, despite our warnings.

2009-12-29 [windowframe]: Well that's pretty useless, since now a decision won't be reached and everyone will remain unsure as to what content they're allowed to submit or not. :/ I'm sorry you're frustrated that we don't agree with you, but there's no need to take it personally. ;) It's better for everyone if you can continue to try and patiently explain, with your extensive knowledge of copyright (which I at least acknowledge I don't have - obviously, I can't speak for the others), why the examples above (or just the original car question, since that would be simpler) definitely wouldn't count as Fair Use. Or is it just that Fair Use can be a bit of a boundary blurrer, so you'd rather stay away from it altogether? :P

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: :)

I'm not taking it personally, I just don't see how we could reach a good conclusion when we feel differently. I don't mean to sound irate. Perhaps if you all read the wiki page that I linked to, that may make things a bit more clear. I'm sorry, I need to get offline right now, but when I get back, if there are still questions about the topic or things left to discuss, I'd be more than happy to jump back in with a fresh look at the whole thing.

The entire situation can be a bit confusing.

XD

2009-12-29 [windowframe]: I've read them. :) (long before you linked them them, too :P) And because this shouldn't be a matter of how we feel - it's law we're talking about, right? it's technically objective, not subjective - there IS actually a right and wrong answer. XP

Basically, from my point of view, the key question is: since we're providing on a non-profit basis, resources for students of art (and by 'students of art', I mean anyone who's practicing drawing/painting/etc :P) to use as a learning tool for non-profit learning, can we class say, a picture of a Ford car as Fair Use?

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: *disclaimer*
^{Words that have been capitalized, are in bold, or are italicized are not meant to be taken to be in a yelling tone. They are simply put into such formats so to emphasize the importance of certain parts of the explanation. The intent of this explanation is to help everyone concerned to be fully informed and aware of theirs and other artists’ legal rights. This is not an attack on anyone, who, at any time, may have attempted to or have succeeded in submitting photos to Reference Pictures or Reference Pictures Submissions that violate copyright, intellectual property, or any other laws.}

Alrighty, after stepping away from the conversation for a bit so that I could think about the best way to explain the laws concerning such things, I have come up with the following.

There are antiquities which pre-date copyright owners, however, the vast majority of those antiquities (ie; the Statue of David, etc.), which are not themselves covered under obvious copyright/trademark/patent/intellectual property/corporate privilege laws, are often considered, for the purposes of intellectual property, the property of the owner (ie; the Museum that owns the Statue of David). So, while an artist could re-make, for example, the Statue of David, and do whatever they want with their ONE UNIQUE WORK OF ART, no one could mass-produce replicas of the Statue of David without licensing agreements from the Museum that now owns said statue. 

A unique work of art is protected under a very specific clause, called the Work of Art Clause. So, for example, I could take and make a painting of two, licensed properties, owned by different copyright holders, and sell it (ie; the Millennium Falcon in a space battle with the Klingon Bird of Prey). However, I could not make prints of that for sale OR for free use. I could not even legally make a digital copy for any sort of distribution. Anyone who bought my ONE UNIQUE WORK could not lease it to, for example, a film studio where it would only appear in the deep background of a single set without my (the artist’s) permission as well as the permission of both legal copyright owners of the original licensed works. 

Permission always must be in writing from the appropriate legal owner(s) of the material(s). For free use, photography or any other form of artwork, all relevant owners of the property must consent to the use of the property. What we are creating in the EPRM/Reference Pictures here on Elftown is a cache of public domain photographs. As such, we must be exceptionally cautious about what is put in as others who are looking for stock images may use it without our knowledge or express consent. It does not matter what disclaimers we put on, here on the site. If it is in this particular public domain wiki, we are liable for how it is used and/or distributed by any subsequent artist, advertising agency, etcetera. Therefore, it is our responsibility to be vigilant about even the possibility of potentially protected works being put into the Public Domain through us.

Therefore, when we find things even potentially objectable, we will not add them. Though this may upset some people, we are looking out for them, us, and Elftown as a site and community of artists, who, being artists themselves, ought to respect and appreciate this decision. No artist wants their works of art stolen or used without their permission. Many artists on this site have disclaimers below their works of art either in their houses, or on their wikis, stating, in no uncertain terms, that their artwork may NOT be used, copied or distributed by others without their express permission, and these works are not technically copywritten, though they are protected under Intellectual Property laws. Therefore, if anyone did steal your artwork, you could legally sue them and win. Now, since works of art such as HP Notebooks, the Guggenheim, etcetera are protected by far more than the Intellectual Property laws, no one should believe for even one second that the owners of the rights to those things would not come after them legally (and win), prosecuting them to the fullest extent of the law. For example, CBS/Paramount Pictures traveled as far as Germany and Australia to bust actors who were selling unlicensed photographs of themselves in their Star Trek roles. The corporation won. They have the reach, the will, and the law on their side. 

Hopefully everyone understands better now why I have refused and will continue to refuse to add certain photos to Reference Pictures. Should anyone have any more questions that this and the full reading of Copyright and Intellectual Property do not cover, please feel free to message me privately and ask. The clauses that I reference above are free to read on the internet, sorry, I’m not going to link them, but they should be easy enough to find. 

Perhaps, after we settle all of this, it would be prudent to create a wiki, which should then be linked to Reference Pictures Submissions that states all of the legal criteria for putting things into the Public Domain, so that, before people submit their images, they have a chance to be absolutely sure that what they are submitting is legal, and should they choose to attempt to submit something that is unacceptable, instead of rehashing all of this over and over again, we could simply refer them to such a wiki. If I have the approval to do so, I will create the page, submit it for all establishment members’ (that care to be involved) approval, ya’ll can stamp it with the “Official ET” header and we can link it to the appropriate wikis.

Just an idea.

: )

<sub>p.s.

So, no, the car is not for Fair use.</sub>

2009-12-29 [windowframe]: "please feel free to message me privately and ask." No, they should ask them here, so everyone finds out the answer. :) Or, if you create the wiki, maybe there :P. You don't need anyone's permission to create a wiki like that by the way. :P

However, you didn't answer my question! :P *prod*
If it counts as Fair Use, then we don't need owners' consent, right? Can our purpose not count as Fair Use, and if not, why not? :)

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: :)
Sorry, I didn't want to clutter up this page with too much of this stuff if we're putting a wiki up regarding all of this. Then we could simply direct people to that wiki and keep a F.A.Q. area where their questions may be posted and answered.

Um..

Yes. If it counts as Fair Use, the owners' permission is NOT required. However, the list of things that ARE considered to be Fair Use is so short, and really does mostly apply to things that occur in nature, plant life, animals, etcetera. I would make sure that I was 110% certain that the thing I was posting was Free Use before putting it anywhere in the Public Domain.

2009-12-29 [windowframe]: Fair Use can't apply to things that aren't copyrighted anyway, so how can it apply to plant life, animals, etc? :P

Fair Use covers teaching resources, how official does that status as 'teacher' or 'student' have to be? Cause, y'know, we could just bung up a sign-up page somewhere for people to list their names and then go 'yey, look, they're students!' <_<


Also, aaaaalso. Surely the first step in any legal proceeding about copyright infringement is to politely ask/demand that whoever is using an image they should takes it down. So... I don't really see a problem with only being 90% sure and then just taking it down if asked. :P But then, I'm not a fan of copyright anyway. <_<

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: You know what I mean.


Erm...I don't know. I don't think that it would be a good idea. Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I think that the idea that I suggested was a good one. Providing people with a clear explanation on the topic and being discriminating with what we accept.

2009-12-29 [windowframe]: Agree with the first part, not sure about the second. :P Go make the wiki already! :P

2009-12-29 [Nioniel]: Working on it, keep an eye on it if you like; Works of Art and You.

2009-12-30 [*Phoenix*]: Wow...all that for a simple no....

Thanks though! It did help clear up the air a bit. I think I'll stick to picturing my animals and yard before I move on to other things...I need to be 110% sure like [Nioniel] so I don't make her job harder. ^_^

2009-12-30 [*Phoenix*]: Okay! I have another question, but this one should be easier to answer. It has nothing to do with copyrights. :)

If I enter a page to one of the contests, will someone look at it and make sure they're all acceptable? Basically, what will happen if I enter?

2009-12-31 [Hedda]: [*Phoenix*]: Of course you own the copyright to the photo you take of any Pontiac and are free to give that photo to public domain.

[Nioniel] are driving copyright way out of line. I'll accept anything that even remotely can be considered fair use, unless it's something that is illegal for other reasons like child porn or military secrets.

Basically: Take the image yourself (or with help of a friend) and you'll be OK. Some lawyers might not agree with me, but let's just stick-rape them in their asses, OK? >:]

2009-12-31 [Hedda]: If you enter a page, the ones running the contest will try to make sure that everything on it is OK. Just ask on the contest-page if you want to make sure we don't miss it! And you can get some help to organize and comment the page too.

2010-01-02 [*Phoenix*]: Okay. Thanks [Hedda].

Lol. I'll pull out my innocent teenager card if I get in trouble! It works every time! XD lol!

Thanks! I haven't actually entered one, but I've wanted to for like...forever! Days just go by to fast sometimes, but I took a TON of pictures over vacation so I may actually be able to enter!! YAY! :0]

2010-03-03 [arthemis_]: I don't know if this is a very weird suggestion, but I'd like to see some reference pictures of hair... Like flowing hair, long hair, short hair, the base of the hair. Toss in male hair too.

2010-03-03 [nehirwen]: Good idea. :)

2010-04-18 [*Phoenix*]: I had thought of that too, [arthemis_]!!!!

2010-04-18 [nehirwen]: EPRM Hair Reference is still open for at least another 10 days. :)

2010-04-28 [Nioniel]: I extended the EPRM Hair Reference's deadline by a month.

2010-06-22 [Nioniel]: Should Hair & Feather be extended?

2010-06-22 [windowframe]: Go for it. :)

2010-06-22 [Nioniel]: Done.
:)

2010-08-24 [Nioniel]: I extended the EPRM Hair Reference's deadline by a month.

2010-10-29 [Lothuriel]: I def think we should do
-EPRM A Song in Your Heart
-EPRM School Days
-EPRM An Apple a Day
but, that could just be because I am biased cause I think they are so super awesome, teehee...has nothing to do with the fact that I created them 

2010-10-30 [Nioniel]: I'm fine with those! If you don't mind setting up the wikis and opening the contests, I'll make calendar notes on mc so that they'll appear on mainstreet and the side feed. :)

Purleeasseee and thank you.

2010-10-30 [Lothuriel]: The wikis are already set up. We just need to decided/add a deadline.

2011-03-17 [Zab]: Is there anyone for dogs/wolves/predators?

2011-04-07 [Mortified Penguin]: Sounds dangerous... I'm game.

2011-04-07 [Nioniel]: There's a section for submissions in Reference Pictures for wolves. :) If you want, you can leave it as a suggestion on the Elftown Competition Ideas page, or else submit your photos to Reference Pictures Submissions and we will add them to the appropriate categories for you. :)

2011-04-12 [kians mummy]: where do i submit then

2011-04-13 [Nioniel]: If you see above where it says Open Contests and look beneath it, you will see the current EPRM sessions that you are able to submit photos to. Click the link for the page that you want to submit to. So if you've taken photos of cheeseburgers, you'd click the food & drink link. Then just edit the page like you did for reference pictures submissions. If you don't submit it correctly, I'll fix it for you. :)

2011-04-19 [Alexi Ice]: I think we should do EPRM sessions on: Time, Cosplay and Amusment parks.

But that's just me <3

2011-04-19 [Chimes]: By time do you mean clocks or time travel? :P

2011-04-19 [Alexi Ice]: Clocks! Or both...time travel sounds fun too O.o

2011-04-21 [Cillamoon]: Oooooooooo Clocks!

2011-04-21 [pegasus1000]: A hat or head dress EPRM would be awesome. I agree with [Alexi Ice] Do a EPRM for time and let people have fun with it.

2011-04-26 [Nioniel]: New open sessions!

2011-05-01 [Marlene'Jacques]: I've a suggestion for a session...plants. I know it could sound quite dull at first but if you think they all have different colours and different countries have different plants so will be quite interesting :)

2011-05-02 [Nioniel]: Thank you for your suggestion. :)

2011-05-02 [Marlene'Jacques]: you're welcome :)

2011-05-02 [nehirwen]: We've had an EPRM Plant Reference. :)

2011-05-02 [Nioniel]: We could run sessions for specific types of plants, though. Tropical, flowers, trees, etc. :)

2011-05-02 [Marlene'Jacques]: oh didn't realise you'd had a plants one but like your suggestion :)

2011-05-02 [Nioniel]: It's still being discussed, but it's a good suggestion.

2011-05-02 [Lothuriel]: Yes, I agree with [Nioniel]. It was a very good suggestion. Even though the EPRM bosses are the most awesome, beautiful, talented, smartest bosses ever, it's hard for us to come up with new themes sometimes. We welcome ANY suggestion you might have!  

2011-05-06 [Mortified Penguin]: Books/bookshelves/libraries references!

2011-05-06 [Nioniel]: Got it, Mort. :)

2011-05-06 [Mortified Penguin]: Kama Sutra references?

2011-05-06 [Nioniel]: Probably not so much.

2011-05-06 [Mortified Penguin]: Your loss! *puts clothes back on*

2011-05-06 [Nioniel]: Okay. Enough chatter for now, though, please. :)

2011-05-06 [Marlene'Jacques]: hahahaha mortified penguin looks like it is lol :)

another suggestion is a long running session to cover all of summer or the christmas period maybe...what you are doing at the time etc.

2011-05-11 [Nioniel]: We'll keep it in mind, thank you. :)

2011-05-11 [Nioniel]: No one told her that, Loth. It was a rhetorical suggestion made in one of the Forums. I'm sure you'll find it. ;)

2011-05-11 [Alexi Ice]: I like the idea, Sera!

2011-05-11 [Lothuriel]: yeah, I just read that mess and responded accordingly.

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: how about, EPRM windows reference

2011-05-13 [Lothuriel]: Hmmm...that is a good idea actually. We had one for architecture but, not specific details. I like it!

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: yeah lol, because there are all different types

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: how about EPRM glasses reference

2011-05-13 [Lothuriel]: You mean eyeglasses? I am not sure that would work...I mean, we could try. I would think that would fit more under head-shots of people wearing glasses. We could do maybe some type of fashion accessory competition; eyeglasses, sun glasses, scarves, hats. That could work.

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: yeah, that will be good, i'll keep thinking of some more

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: EPRM television reference pictures

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: EPRM clothing reference pictures

2011-05-13 [Lothuriel]: Ok I added one for electronics but, I am pretty sure we already have one for clothing hidden around here some place.

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: i have been looking for it, but can't find it

2011-05-13 [Lothuriel]: Oh, no. You are right it was for Cloth, not clothing.

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: though there was something going on there lol

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: EPRM farm animals reference pictures

2011-05-13 [Lothuriel]:

2011-05-13 [kians mummy]: if that was pink and had a pig nose, it would be a pig with false teeth in

2011-05-13 [Lothuriel]: LOL...

2011-05-13 [Alexi Ice]: I'm gonna' go take a million goose pictures for that one then...

2011-05-13 [Lothuriel]: OOh, I love Geese!

2011-05-31 [Mortified Penguin]: Do pictures of dogs, cats, rabbits, and Southern women count as farm animals?

2011-05-31 [Nioniel]: For all but the women, I'd say so, they can be found on farms.

2011-06-04 [Lothuriel]: Hey!! I am a Southern girl! I take great offense to that! 

2011-06-04 [Mortified Penguin]: I take great offense to your FACE!

2011-06-04 [kians mummy]: EPRM Dolls Reference is an empty page on the news

2011-06-04 [Chimes]: Fixed. :) Thank you.

2011-06-06 [Cillamoon]: Crap! Thank you Chimes and sammie

2011-06-13 [kians mummy]: dolphin pictures on holiday can you add this

2011-06-13 [Nioniel]: Please submit them to Reference Pictures Submissions. :)

2011-06-13 [kians mummy]: forgot lol

2011-09-23 [kians mummy]: How about a farmers land Reference

2013-03-21 [Nioniel]: New deadlines for our current contests!

2013-05-11 [kians mummy]: Have we done a flower one?

2013-05-11 [Nioniel]: Doesn't look like it, though Flowers Reference Pictures has a pretty wide assortment.

2013-05-12 [kians mummy]: So can I upload them to there still, mines a mixture of flowers. X

2013-05-12 [Nioniel]: You upload them to a wiki and place them on the submission page, then the bosses will add the images.