2006-07-02 [sequeena_rae]: Alcohol is bad -_- XD

2006-07-02 [Delladreing]: Very.

2006-07-02 [The Naiad]: Yep.

2006-07-02 [sequeena_rae]: But wine is nice >_> *ignores the fact that it's alcohol*

2006-07-02 [Delladreing]: Well, alcohol in moderation, but alcohol is a depressant, so if ones suffers from depression its advisable to avoid it.

2006-07-02 [sequeena_rae]: It's an depressant? Wait...I see the logic in that XD

2006-07-02 [Delladreing]: Yes :p

2006-07-02 [sequeena_rae]: Ehehehe >)

2006-07-02 [The Naiad]: Yeah. LOL.

2006-07-02 [Azuri]: Acually my boss isnt even there when i work :/ but the first two days I worked with this dumbass who does nothing so i never really get the chance to sit down and get off my feet >.< Heh everything in moderation, I should take a picture of our achol bottles. two of our 4 house ocupents are over 21 and the other two will be so next year, though we rarely ever drink.

2006-07-02 [Pyra]: XD XD

2006-07-02 [sequeena_rae]: I'd have kicked the person in the piehole XP

2006-07-02 [Azuri]: Ah I dont have to worry about it, Im fairly sure hes getting fired >D

2006-07-02 [Pyra]: Yea....I'm wondering why you didn't...

2006-07-02 [sequeena_rae]: Rocking \m/

2006-07-02 [Azuri]: Because I can do one better, let him fuck up tell the boss and get him fired oposed to me loosing my new job for beating someone up

2006-07-02 [Pyra]: Nyah, you make a wicked good point

2006-07-02 [Azuri]: <-- is devious like that

2006-07-03 [The Naiad]: Hehe. :D

2006-07-03 [sequeena_rae]: *would kick him anyway* >_> XD

2006-07-03 [Avoral]: Alcohol is terrible. You shouldn't drink it ever.

2006-07-03 [The Naiad]: But curry is nice. ^-^

2006-07-03 [sequeena_rae]: Mmmm, chicken curry.

2006-07-03 [The Naiad]: Hmmm... it didn't turn out to be as nice as I thought.

2006-07-03 [Delladreing]: Hate it when that happens, and er, this will be a bit random, but who is it here has sex toys? :p

2006-07-03 [sequeena_rae]: Not me XD

2006-07-03 [Delladreing]: God damn :P I have a hen night to plan, and I need avice on what joke sex toy to buy, as I have no idea XD

2006-07-03 [The Naiad]: LOL. *Puts up hand* I do. *Blush*

2006-07-03 [Delladreing]: Hooray! :P And eh, I wouldnt bother blushing, I'm the one that attends sex parties hosted by Ann Summers people, its just that my friend who runs them is on holiday for like a month, and I have yea two weeks to help find this thing XD

2006-07-03 [Azuri]: Heheh fun fun. speaking of sex toys I saw the greatest one EVER the other day on Blade III. It was a dildo with a daracula head!

2006-07-03 [Delladreing]: *lmao* nice :P

2006-07-04 [Avoral]: I've got a whip, handcuffs, chains, paddles, razorblades, knives, swords, clamps, a broken plasma sphere, blindfolds, rope, empty bottles, an almost phallic-shaped container I use to freeze water into ice, Listerine strips, candles, guitar strings, a baton, my unicycle... My list of sex toys continues. Do those count?

2006-07-04 [Avoral]:  (I seem to recall The Fiona speaking of this... Bwaha...)

2006-07-04 [The Naiad]: Err... Yeah, I got my stuff from Ann Summers mainly. Not too much, I don't use them so much anymore after Ben and I broke up. What kinda things did you have in mind Dela?

2006-07-04 [Delladreing]: Why the hell did I not think to talk to [Avoral] and heh, I dunno, she is a tad conservative the bride in question, so we don't want to scare her too much :p anything thats just small and fun *cough* I was looking on their sight, but yea no Idea ^^; also yes Avy, I was talking about that, its funny how great minds sometimes think alike ;)

2006-07-04 [Pyra]: *shudders*

2006-07-04 [Delladreing]: hmm?

2006-07-05 [Avoral]: She's shivering thinking about the ice. And everything I could (*cough*andhave*cough*) do to someone with it.

2006-07-05 [Avoral]: You could get her a nice collection of oils. I've always been a fan of flavored lubricants, edible lotion, and warming lotion.

2006-07-05 [Delladreing]: Me too :P I was looking at them. But apparently it will b more fnny to see her face o.O

2006-07-05 [sezmo lex]: get her a chque book of sex acts, like theis vocher entilels you to one blow job, stuff like that ann summers sells them,there quite cheep and the pictures are funny! plus you wont offend anyone, like is her mum or anyone like that going to be there?

2006-07-05 [Delladreing]: Nah, just us girlies.

2006-07-05 [Pyra]: XD

2006-07-05 [Avoral]: Those things are great. I love them.

2006-07-05 [Avoral]: *Looks back* Wait a second, have I attained sex guru status?

2006-07-05 [Fuu]: *walks in very tired* Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been here, I have evil summer homework. :'( *sighs* so what have i missed?

2006-07-05 [Pyra]: No, Antonio, you have not.

2006-07-05 [Avoral]: Remind me to cash in the next five slave-tasks to prove otherwise.

2006-07-05 [Delladreing]: Hah :p

2006-07-06 [a faerie tale]: Oh man! Lillie! Guess who showed up at our doorstep yesterday!

2006-07-06 [a faerie tale]: It was E!

2006-07-06 [Pyra]: OMG! Is he over there now?? OMG OMG OMG

2006-07-06 [Delladreing]: Jesus Buggering Christ, 94 members, and to think I never even thought I'd get 20 when I first started it.

2006-07-07 [Pyra]: E is so hot XD! I'm going to have to rape hug him when I see him!

2006-07-07 [Fuu]: Yay! ^_^ We have lots of members.

2006-07-08 [Delladreing]: And with good reason apparently :) The number of messages I get a week telling me how much people loved how factual and interesting I make things is astounding. You might even call it a work of art.

2006-07-08 [sequeena_rae]: A masterpiece XP

2006-07-08 [Delladreing]: *bows* One cannot help but be a slave to one's art.

2006-07-08 [someelf]: 95 >_> I am a secret member :3

2006-07-08 [sequeena_rae]: *stabs it* Okay, I agree that I need my head read >_> XD *puts Playgans in a frame and puts it in the Louvre*

2006-07-08 [Delladreing]: Join elfy!!!! I need all the support :P and yes dear, you're mad, but you have a good eye for talent, even if it is photoshop uber basic.

2006-07-08 [someelf]: But I like to be speshul :3 I'm secret ^^

2006-07-08 [Delladreing]: You can write in that you are the secret member and not put your name in :P

2006-07-08 [someelf]: XD Okie :3

2006-07-08 [Delladreing]: woot

2006-07-08 [someelf]: ^^

2006-07-08 [someelf]: ooooh I had to wait till it was 100th ;_;

2006-07-08 [Delladreing]: Nah 95 is special because you got it :P

2006-07-08 [someelf]: Awwwwwwwwwww :3 *tackles and nibbles cookie while sharing it with Sarah and Dela* :3

2006-07-08 [Delladreing]: woot *offers tea*

2006-07-08 [someelf]: yes please ^^

2006-07-08 [Keii]: *glomps everyone*

2006-07-08 [someelf]: Iiik *Has hot tea over herself when being glomped* X_X

2006-07-08 [Delladreing]: o.O *glomps Kei* :D

2006-07-08 [Keii]: O.O I would offer to help clean up the tea of you, but the last time I did that the guy complained awfully. Apparently you can't just go and lick tea off a stranger...

2006-07-08 [someelf]: XD It depends where the tea is of course XD

2006-07-09 [Azuri]: XD you people never cease to amaze me XD

2006-07-09 [Delladreing]: No Kei you can't, need to atleast ask them :P

2006-07-09 [sequeena_rae]: Where's the tea at? :D Thanks to Dela, I am hooked on it.

2006-07-09 [Delladreing]: Right here :P *hands it over*

2006-07-09 [sequeena_rae]: Wheeeee! *scuttles off into corner*

2006-07-09 [someelf]: XD

2006-07-09 [*(.Randi.)*]: has anyone here heard of Orion Foxwood? He is about the most powerful teacher in the Faey teachings. Yes, I'm Pagan. Shamanism is what I preactice, to be exact. My mother practices Wicca, though. I choose not to.

2006-07-09 [*(.Randi.)*]: o.O just a little about me! :P

2006-07-09 [Pyra]: ...Okay then. Alrighty. *ahem*

2006-07-09 [Delladreing]: Hello then elfstone :) and I'm not sure, I may have some things, but I'm not big on my Fae stuff.

2006-07-09 [Azuri]: Id like to help you but I know absolutly nothing about Fae teachings either which is surpriseing bacause i love fairys >>

2006-07-09 [Delladreing]: So do I, but the teachings are a tad different.

2006-07-09 [Azuri]: Ah i see *hasnt a clue* i knew they existed and ment to look at them once but i forgot O.o

2006-07-09 [Delladreing]: I have a class somewhere on the history.

2006-07-09 [Azuri]: Oooo spiffy

2006-07-10 [sequeena_rae]: Fae teachings? *blank* Oh!

2006-07-10 [Azuri]: Forget they existed??

2006-07-10 [sequeena_rae]: Didn't know there was teachings o.O

2006-07-10 [Azuri]: Lol *pets* its ok I dont know what their all about

2006-07-10 [Delladreing]: THE FAERY TRADITION is all I have on it on the computer.

2006-07-10 [Azuri]: I wanna know why anyone who started a big thing like the alexandrian, gardinarian(SP?) and faery all have sex in their intitiantions O.o

2006-07-10 [Delladreing]: They dont all, but its to do with the creation myths that are imbeded in pagan culture. Energies fucked, life was created. your new life as a pagan can involve reinacting it to show oneness with the gods.

2006-07-10 [Azuri]: Mmm I know they dont all but it is a common thing in the starting up of certian sects, though what you say does make sence.

2006-07-10 [Delladreing]: The Great Rite, is an act of imitation of the Gods and creation. Many things follow the same ideas. There is one where it was a female energy who found herself beautiful this impregnated herself. The others along the lines of there was a male energy, and he really liked the look of the female one who was queen or something like that, and they joined together and the earth was born. Imitation of the gods.

2006-07-11 [Avoral]: I wish she'd videotaped impregnating herself.

2006-07-11 [Azuri]: Lol I have to agree I would have liked to see that

2006-07-11 [Delladreing]: The cosmic turkey baister of the stars and pure matteral energy. Good recipe if you ask me for self impregnation o.O

2006-07-11 [sequeena_rae]: o.O

2006-07-12 [Avoral]: And they say the orgone is blue, was it?

2006-07-12 [Delladreing]: As far as I'm aware :p

2006-07-13 [Rondel]: There are other explanations for the inclusion of sex in the initiation rites, which are a little more prosaic; the Alexandrian Tradition was derived from the Gardnerian tradition (as were most Wiccan traditions, since Gardner's was the first), & Gerald Gardner happened to have a thing about certain behaviours, including the use of ritual to justify sexual activities. That is NOT to deny that there is a valid place for Sex Magicks in Wicca or any other neopagan rites, for much the reasons given above (& because it naturally raises a lot of energy, which in Taoist beliefs is held to have to do with the quality of the ensuing conception, making it a logical extension of the human energies),

2006-07-13 [Rondel]: it's just an acknowledgement that not all elements within a given religious tradition are necessarily derived from its beliefs, rather than from the character of the individuals who influenced its development. In this case, Gardner's behaviour pattern is pretty clear to anyone who chooses to research his actual origins and actions in founding the Wiccan tradition which bears his name, as well as subsequent events where he developed "new rules" to justify his own actions and preferences. For instance, he created a rule about the High Priestess needing to be young and beautiful "as a reflection of the Goddess", when he wanted to oust his long-time (experienced) High Priestess, in favour of a

2006-07-13 [Rondel]: very (religiously/ritually) inexperienced young woman who "happened to be" his current lover. In short, just as Paul's own biases (such as his anti-homosexuality bias & misogynistic tendencies) influenced the development of Christianity, introducing elements which were not originally present, so too, Gardner's own views influenced the religion in whose creation/recreation he had such a large influence. It's NOT a judgement of the validity of the religion itself, in either case, it's just a matter of trying to sort out which elements are intrinsic to the belief system, & which were an historical accident resulting from the character of an influential figure in the religion's development.

2006-07-13 [Rondel]: It's also important to note that just as the question applied only to Wiccan traditions, so does the answer; it specifically doesn't apply to family tradition Witches such as those who trained [Delladreing], & it also doesn't apply to some of the later Wiccan traditions in which Gardner's influence on Wicca was intentionally reduced, in favour of a different "take" on the basic principles, which themselves remain the same. Just as Christianity is, at its core, about the teachings of Christ, so too, Wicca is at its core about the beliefs & myth cycles derived from reconstructed pagan traditions of Europe & the British Isles. Neither Gardner nor Paul is essential to the core elements.

2006-07-13 [Delladreing]: Yay Rondel :D *hugs* I wasn't so much overly aware of that, I knew there were rediculous rules about HP's being young and beautiful and so on to "mimic" the Goddess, and it always rather made me wonder, but I guess now my suspicions have been somewhat confirmed on that one.

2006-07-13 [Rondel]: Gardner was involved with Sex Magick before he ever founded Wicca; he (or rather, his personal proclivities) is also the source of another common element in Wiccan intiatory rituals: the bondage element, found in its ritualized form in the knotting of a rope around one leg, that the initiated may be "neither bound nor free"; Gardner (as you may have guessed) was into bondage practises, which are directly linked to his introduction of elements of bondage (a dangerous thing to mix with sex magicks, or any form of sexual practise, really) into various aspects of Wiccan ritual. I'll see if I can dig up a good article on this subject to direct your readers to, Dela, but it's out there in the

2006-07-13 [Rondel]: source material for anyone who cares to do the research. As for current-day Wiccan practise, there are groups which still include these elements as a matter of conscious choice, those which do so simply because they are "traditionalists", and also some which DO NOT include these practises as a routine part of their religious practise. That is not to say that they don't do sex magick (many do, usually discretely & in private), but they DO NOT require it of their members/initiates. Anyone considering getting involved with a Wiccan group (circle, coven, whatever) should ask these questions in advance, & be sure they're comfortable with the answers, rather than blindly accepting whatever may

2006-07-13 [Rondel]: be "required" of them, as it arises in the course of ritual. Also, it might be worth taking a look at the following, for anyone who isn't already familiar with it: http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html That's The Advanced Bonewits' Cult Danger Evaluation Frame, created by the highly respected neopagan author P.E.I. Bonewits. I strongly recommend it as reading for EVERYONE, especially anyone who is involved with ANY organization, religious or otherwise, which considers itself to have the right to require anything of its members, holds influence over them, or sets a standard of behaviour for them. It's just a tool for considering what power is being assumed, & how it is being exercised.

2006-07-13 [Delladreing]: That is a very good point, and one I was writing down in my safety instructions about before joining a coven after I get many requests in helping locate a coven. ALWAYS ask questions, and never be told that you MUST do something that you do not feel comfortable with. The number of vulnerable people that have been duped in to performing sexual acts by coven leaders in order to "be accepted by the group" is unbeleiavable and sickening with some cases bordering nigh on rape.

2006-07-13 [BarleySinger]: It is a sick thing all right and WAY too common. There people all over the world (here and there) who want to be "in charge" of things - just to be in control. Some go into politics, some business, etc. All positions of power have the potential for the abuse of power - so positions of power naturally attract abusers of power. Getting sex out of a position of power is one of many ways of power abuse (see that Bonewits cult evaluation). It happens in the catholic church, in wiccan covens, in homes for the disabled, in state homes for orphans and any other setting you can think of. The more vulnerable the people in a setting are, and the less likely a person is to get caught in that setting,

2006-07-13 [BarleySinger]: the more likely it is that there will be abuse of power in that place.  When it comes to religion there is an added risk factor - most especailly to the kids of the seekers. Some people who are pagan seekers (or other types of religious seekers) are vulerable people - because there is a percentage of these people who are emotionally hurting. They are the walking wounded of the world. When the walking wounded join up they poften have very bad "boundaries" and are often willing to do anything to feel accepted. They just want their pain to pain go away. They are trying to get somebody to make their messed up lives/emotions "all better" somehow. They want to hear the life

2006-07-13 [BarleySinger]: instructions that will somehow make them all better. Often what they want is the love and total acceptance that they never got from their parents. So they attach to the group and act like it is a perfect family. When these walking wounded join up, they usually join a controlling cult-like group because they WANT to be told what to do. Then they marry inside the group and have kids in the group and their kids know no reality but the reality that was fed to them in that group. If there is any serious abuse in the group (like you hear about in many church groups) those kids will never be believed or helped inside the group, because to their parents that environment is

2006-07-13 [BarleySinger]: perfection incarnate. It gives them a sense of love they have had nowhere else. It is a common effect of distant parenting. These kind of "joiners" are too emotionally invested in their little world to ever say anything against it. These people are sometimes called "true believers" because experiements have shown that if they are lied to outright (say by a fake psychic), and then they are shown that they were fooled, they will continue to believe that what they saw was genuine even after the faker tells them outright that it was all phoney. They WANT to believe and HAVE to believe. They are driven to believe in what they see and to want to be a part of something bigger than they

2006-07-13 [BarleySinger]: are. They will believe in (imprint on) anything that they are shown. This is why it is so very important to me when apporached by people who ask me what I believe, and who are rather obviously looking for a thing that they can believe in too...to tell them (as my wife does) that they really need to figure out what THEY believe first. Otherwise if they are a part of the walking wounded they could easily just mirror my beliefs, accept them as the perfect truth, join some group, and have no idea that they are not really being themselves. I do not want to contribute to emotional problems of somebody who needs counseling gfar more than they need a coven.

2006-07-14 [Avoral]: I really like these two. *Ye cupcakes* A lot of people think cults are just on TV and in movies, sometimes on the news whenever someone turns over a rock in Texas, and end up getting sucked into them thinking they've just found a religious crowd that gets it. http://www.caic.org.au/zexmems.htm http://www.excultworld.com/ http://www.ex-cult.org/General/identifying-a-cult http://www.holysmoke.org/wicca/file18-863.htm

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: Heh, the local "cult" here not many people know about it, but they take in primarily wives that are "unstable" and brainwash them in to thinking their husbands knock them about, thusly get a divorce, through this time the "cult" is their support. For a fee. Its not sexual exploitation, but just exploitation of the vulnerable. No name was ever given to it by the newsm it was just "the cult" but it was reffered to as "being similar to the cult of Wicca" the outcry that one caused *shudders*

2006-07-14 [BarleySinger]: The most common "cult" in the US is the cult-ic side of christianity (most every religion has a cult side to it). IN christianity it is evangelical fundamentalism. If you just look at the cult evaulation form, and compare it to christian fundamentalism, it seriously qualifies. The form identifies cults by the ways that they try to control their members lives in ways that are not apropriate to control. Things like the money (you must give 10% of your income), or peoples sex lives (must not have sex before or outside of marriage, or be gay/lesb/bi/trans), the group usually has a central guru (nobody said they had to be a real person, or a living person). Look at the form and compare them.

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: *twitch* I did my extended essay on such Christians for my religion class two years ago, the research mad me go cold from top to toe and I spent many nights praying I'd never bump in to such people in my lifetime. I get enough from the zealous playgans without someone who honestly believes the Spannish Inquisition was a good idea -shudder-

2006-07-14 [BarleySinger]: I grew up in that world, and until I got out I had no idea that there were other types of christians, as we were told that the other kinds were not REAL christians. All I knew about were the angry people who frothed at the mouth and hated a lot of people. I still don't care for the religion, but I do see the difference in approach. There are often people associated with a religion that are "literalists" who want a world of black and white thinking (a trait that is a part of borderline personality disorder) with simple rules. They tend to get angry and even violent if their world view is challenged because they are "mental". 

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: Heh, you have my upmost respect for having managed to live in that kind of environment. I grew up in a protestant household, although not zealous, admitting to my faith would result in quite probably a @ss kicking :\

2006-07-14 [BarleySinger]: I don't talk to my parents about much of anything other than the weather, family birthdays, etc. They are too emotionally closed off for there to be a point. They are "stoics" and the church is the only place where they let themselves feel emotions (though they have gotten better as they age enough to be closer to death). So if a thing doesn't isn't connected to the church, it isn't there. They didn't notice when I was a kid in high school, with severe bronchial infections for 9 months of every year, hacking up my lungs so hard that it caused the piano on the other end of the house (and down one floor) to "sound" when I coughed from the force of it. They honestly didn't notice it

2006-07-14 [BarleySinger]: and didn't know (and disagreed with me) that it had been going on for four years when I had to drop out of part of a term of college to see a doctor of my own choosing and get well. Their way of life is about finding a fantasy to live in and stems from emotional/mental problems. They disociate from reality and live in a different world. There are people who use fantasy organisations the same way too. You know, hard core CON goers, and Ren Faire folk who live on nothing but ramen for 4 months and not pay any bills so that they can go to some big convention...knowing that when they get back they will have no job, no apartment, etc. Different people disapear into different fantasy worlds.

2006-07-14 [BarleySinger]: And...coming back to the point of this wiki...one of the places that people sometimes disappear into (perhaps when they are emotionally hurt and searching for a way not to feel that anymore) is into a fantasy version of paganism. One that comes out of a book (or your imagination, or D&D, etc), where people mouth the words of a few nifty rituals, and never think about what they actually believe in, or really consider their own place on planet earth and how they ought to be living on a day to day real and concrete basis. Some people (the mystic bullshit folk) do actually shuffle in D&D and bits of their favorite movies and fantasy books and comic books. I know of people who claimed to be

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: O_O Ouch with the broncial infection, I've had a few real bad things like that, but never enough to make the house shake, I get in to the state of not being able to couch and just lie limply gasping for air, and then someone eventualy notices and dials the doc for me. And I can sympathise somewhat with the parents living in a kind of dream world (no doubt you'll have heard some of this recently from Rondel the level to which denile goes in my house) and I must say not paying the bills and living off rice would probably suit me just now, but not to the same extent as that. I know gamers of the computer kind that act that way. It wasn't so long ago that I had to open up my spare room to

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: a friend who spent so long playing video games he didnt notice the letters from his landlord informing him he was being thrown out.

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: And I'm the baine of those peoples lives at Gatherings. I truly I am. I turn up to rituals with no tools or ritual clothing and when once asked "Did you bring an athain for the ritual of the Circle" looked about me and picked up the plastic spoon I had just used to stir the sugar in my tea with and announced rather cheerfully "Yup!" those that didn't know me for the little if-it-can-work-I'll-make-do person that I am were horrified beyond belief. Gave me a good laugh.

2006-07-14 [The Naiad]: Haha. Sounds great Dela! XD

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: Why I'm tempted to one day hold a Playgans Con with a bit of this and that, just to see how many people thought I was bullshitting over how I do things. The time before it was the spoon I got told of for "using my hands" too much. To be honest, its safer not to hand me a knife, no matter how dull it is.

2006-07-14 [BarleySinger]: "Guardians" (for Mercedes Lackey's Diana Tregarde books) or far more believable things from pagan groups that exist, although these people know nothing are not affiliated at all. All of this just to feel a bit more special, and/or to avoid dealing with emotional pain from distant parents, or abuse problems, or other painful things in life, none of which go away by ignoring them and playing "pretend" while wearing funny clothes (as if it where halloween all year 'round) and wearing the required tacky silver skull jewelry.

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: Ach, I knew a lot of them. They made my brain hurt talking about their "responsabilities" and then I got myelf thrown out by asking "So in your real life what do you do?" *chuckles*

2006-07-14 [BarleySinger]: I remember once having somebody ask (when I was at a ren type event) if I was going to "cast a circle" around my encampment. Now, this was not the right umm...venue for that sort of thing. So...I just grabbed the 5 pound hammer I had used to put in the stakes with, and used it to do a reasonably traditional norse style eclectic wiccan casting (after all I am about 50% scandahoovian). I do not know if they understood my humor. It was a bit dry. I never have used a plastic spoon for anything, but then I am not fond of plastics (they make my skin feel funny). In reality I am pretty minimalist, especially these days with health problems and all.

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: Minimalism all the way if you ask me. Less things for me to carry to these things, which are usually in the middle of nowhere and quite usually in a field, the fence of which I have to climb. Minimalism is my friend in these cases.

2006-07-14 [The Naiad]: Indeed, I find it quite annoying having to use all these tools, truly if you need/ want to invoke a God/dess then all you need is yourself, maybe a guiding candle or offering, but that's all.

2006-07-14 [Rondel]: Tools, like any other kind of "set dressing", can be useful for cueing the mind into the fact that "this, here, now, is my ritual space, & I am now going to operate in that state of mind" -- but there's a big difference between being able to use the tools well, & NEEDING the tools, IMHO. I happen to have a taste for "smells & bells" rituals (dating back to my "high church" upbringing in the Episcopal Christian church), but just because I can enjoy a ritual with full setting & costuming (just as I can enjoy Shakespeare performed w/ full detailed sets & costumes) doesn't mean that either experience is dependent on those things. Shakespeare & ritual are both just as good in street clothes.

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: Couldnt have said it better myself :)

2006-07-14 [Rondel]: Or nude, for that matter. And, for that matter, ritual is not the only way to work with energy, or religious/spiritual intent. It, too, is nothing more nor less than a tool. As a proud tool-using ape, I'm quite content to use tools, & I can enjoy a well-made one for its own intrinsic value (I've been given everything from athames to air compressors, carbon steel knife sets (for cooking) & even a washing machine (the old kind with a wringer, for washing fleeces for spinning) as presents, & been quite grateful for them) -- but it's my view that we evolved not through becoming dependent on a given set of tools, but rather due to our ability to assess our environment & find within it those

2006-07-14 [Rondel]: things which will work well as tools, & best enable us to work our will, whether it's killing mammoths, staying warm, designing a vehicle that will get a human being to a location outside of our planet's atmosphere, or communicating with a person on the other side of the world. Tool using traits are not about becoming "hide-bound", but about being flexible-minded enough to see the potential in the world around us. :) All my opinion, of course, feel free to disagree.  LOL Still works for me. But I still enjoy well-made tools, and their use, when it suits the situation.

2006-07-14 [Delladreing]: Works for me, I don't think I have much more to add to that :)

2006-07-15 [BarleySinger]: by the way [Delladreing] i have not and will not tell my parents about my own path in life, just as you have not. First, they are old (dad is around 76 and mom is 70) and the shock (becasue of what it would mean in their fundamentalist minds) could hurt their health. Second, they would never understand. To them, anything that is not evangelical protesant, isn't christian and anything that is not chrisitian is evil and "of the devil". They believe in a literal devil, and have no idea that the whole idea didn't does not exist in Judeism, and didn't even exist in Christianity untill 'round 300 years had passed and the original fairly-gnostic spin of on Judeism that had been there at the

2006-07-15 [BarleySinger]: start, were slowed turned into "heresy", the devil nd hell were invented, and Paul became the most important teacher.

2006-07-15 [Azuri]: I know how you feel [BarleySinger] for thats the reason no one in my family knows. If they did it would get back to my elderly grandparents both very christian as my grandfather is a pastor. Im afraid if he were to find out he would have a heart attack(bad history of heart problems) I think in those cases its good to keep such information secret.

2006-07-15 [Delladreing]: Heh, a bit like mine really. I only ever attempoted once the broche the idea of "other faiths" it didnt go down well. I've decided to live "in the broom closet" apart from online for the rest of my life really. It saves me so much trouble >.>

2006-07-15 [Azuri]: Hehe mesh the broom closet is roomy enough for me^_^

2006-07-15 [Delladreing]: Besides, its cozy and warm >.> unlike the rest of my house whichis riddled with he cold of a merciless heart. A bit like Narnia, only no cool snow or annoying children with annoying accents.

2006-07-15 [The Naiad]: Ohhh, is Mr. Tumnus there? :D

2006-07-15 [Delladreing]: Yup, I've got his head mounted abover my fireplace.

2006-07-15 [The Naiad]: Oh dear. :S

2006-07-15 [sequeena_rae]: o.O

2006-07-15 [Delladreing]: I was not fond of his furry self

2006-07-15 [sequeena_rae]: *decides to not ask*

2006-07-15 [Delladreing]: ehehehehe. I am so bored at work ^__^ -.-

2006-07-15 [sequeena_rae]: Damn xD

2006-07-15 [The Naiad]: I'm quite happy - well sorta, I'm working, but it's working on a David Bowie project, so that makes me happy. Hehe. ^-^

2006-07-15 [sequeena_rae]: I love him as the goblin king ^^

2006-07-15 [The Naiad]: Indeedy. I'm looking at his early music career mainly - him as Major Tom, Ziggy Stardust, Aladdin Sane, Halloween Jack etc - stuff like that. :)

2006-07-16 [Diiwica]: I just started a fourm based webpage on Religions or a man sorts. and Was hopeing that M fellow Pagans would Join me on this. Being it is new there is not much, well baisacl Nothing, on the page et, but I am hopeing that a man people would joi to make a wonderful working webpage of talking and shareing of all religions.

2006-07-16 [Diiwica]: It would be muchl liked and appreichated (bad spelling) if ou fellow pagans would Join and help me make m dream a realit :)  http://z14.invisionfree.com/BellChimeReligions

2006-07-16 [Diiwica]: Lol, I know Shamless advertising

2006-07-16 [Azuri]: Omg I <3 David Bowie*wants to see project when done*

2006-07-16 [The Naiad]: Well, I'm sure I'll put some pics up on ET and DA sometime for all to see Azuri. :)

2006-07-16 [Delladreing]: I'll have a look Dii

2006-07-16 [Azuri]: w00t <3

2006-07-21 [sequeena_rae]: OMG! *faints* No more playgans :O XD

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: Yup. Allllllllllllllllll gooooone!!! :O

2006-07-21 [The Naiad]: Argh, it's all gone wrong!

2006-07-21 [The Naiad]: But in the meanwhile, I'll just plug my art again. Tee he! ^-^ Go to my ET page to find the DA addy address if you want to look more at my photography. LOL.

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: This is the maffia of Llewllyn publishing! We have got Dela captured! Unless you give us all your money we will kill her and destroy Playgans 4EVA!!!

2006-07-21 [The Naiad]: Oh no! Welsh sounding people (who are probably Americans) have captured Dela!

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: yup. and nice art :P

2006-07-21 [The Naiad]: Thanks Dela. :) *Grabs a sword, thrusts it about, and saves you*

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: hehe thanks. :p

2006-07-21 [Hedda]: Eh? What about the missing content? Now I kind of need to remove this page from all links as it's not useful anymore.

2006-07-21 [The Naiad]: What? Quick, Dela!!!

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: Eh its going back up now :p I was editing some things

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: Please note some links are empty and some pages not finished editing. I was reworking the main page and didn't want to be annoying members with a constant update coming up at the bottem.

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: as for removing things *clings to [Hedda] nooooooooooes

2006-07-21 [The Naiad]: Yay! Dela saved the day again! *Hugs* ^-^

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: -we hope- :P *hugs* eh so much work, so many pages, I've created a monster >.<

2006-07-21 [Hedda]: But why didn't you keep the old version of the page while making a new version of it?

2006-07-21 [The Naiad]: Oh dear. Maybe Dela should... cool down?

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: I did, but then something went wrong with my laptop, I hit "delete" while doing something, hadn't realised, went back to it after having done something else and realised "oh fuck" and then couldn't be bothered to hit the previous version, and went back to writing it in my diary :p Complicated I know, but I've never made anything easy for myself.

2006-07-21 [The Naiad]: Crazy crazy world of Dela. Hehe. Night all. ;)

2006-07-21 [Delladreing]: Night Naiad. Its what I get for starting to update and going for a bath thinking I can take a break and relax for about 45 minutes of the thing I've been working solidl on for 5 hours as I had nothing else to do today x_x

2006-07-22 [Fuu]: *teary eyes* I can't get on to Definition of a Real Wiccan.  Damn. Anywho how is everyone? Sorry I've been away so long....*whisper* my work is trying to kill me.

2006-07-22 [Azuri]: Hehe cant wait to see Playgans all spiffed up and really cant wait to see the newest content! <3

2006-07-22 [Pyra]: Nyaha! Here here!

2006-07-22 [sequeena_rae]: Oooh wow, I'm loving the new look Dela, oh btw aime in the first part should only be aim xD

2006-07-22 [Delladreing]: Eh thanks, I hadn't quite finished editing last night when I put it up.

2006-07-22 [sequeena_rae]: Don't worry about it, it's looking very good :D

2006-07-22 [Azuri]: *Nod nod* very excellent ^_^

2006-07-22 [Delladreing]: woot

2006-07-22 [Rondel]: Hear hear! :) I'm glad to see the way you're taking this project, [Delladreing] -- I think you've done great things here, and it's nice to see the potential actually being brought to fruition. :) And given the attention being directed to these pages, the introductory disclaimer is probably a good idea; it makes it clearer where you're coming from, for those who don't have the sense to look before leaping (usually to "open mouth, insert foot"). :D I'm glad that you have survived the evil eye of Hedda's link-destroying gaze, as well. *wink*

2006-07-22 [Delladreing]: Hehe yes, well we all know thats my promise made on ep to whore it out advertise it :D hehe that or my quick "shit copy and paste copy and PASTE" action of last night, and thank you Rondel, is ever :) I seem to be saying that a lot to you right now.

2006-07-22 [Rondel]: That's okay hon, you're always welcome. :)