2005-08-02 [Keii]: Thats the one! *is more tired than she thought* >.<

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: Ok, now I understand the bunnie-steel wrath thing. And I'm spared without joining the dictatorship. ^_^ Cause I'm an ewok with antlers that goes MOO!

2005-08-02 [Keii]: But teh bunnies may also steal their opposisions wrath, and enable them useless...

2005-08-02 [Keii]: And now I understand the moo thing ^^

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: Hehehe Actually I'm a cow that can talk with antlers, but ewoks are cuter

2005-08-02 [Keii]: I'd have to agree with you there

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: I wish I had an ewok, and a moogle, and a tonberry, and a chocobo!

2005-08-02 [Keii]: O.O Me too! Well everything except a tonberry... which I'm sure I've heard of, but not sure o.O

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: Why wouldn't you want a tonberry? Imagine the kind of nightwatch that would make! Burglar breaks into your house and sees nothing in the house except a little lamp coming slowly toward him. When it gets really close, he sees it's a tiny little green thing. Unfortunately for them they also see the knife as it stabs them.

2005-08-02 [Keii]: Ooohhh I like the sound of that!

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: ehhh what?

2005-08-02 [Maurer's conclusions]: Final fantasy monster things. Very esoteric.

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: ehhh O.o

2005-08-02 [Keii]: Is that all you can say?

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: There she is! Read back what I have written there pedophile defender! Or must I re-write my arguement?

2005-08-02 [Keii]: Only about 20minutes late there Kel... heh heh

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: oh so now iam the big baaaad wolf because i have feelings? sjees. i cant even state what i think here, apperently

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: ill just keep my thoughts to myself then from now one, they arent apreciated anyway, as usual i must add

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: Big bad wolf? When did that happen? And I have feelings, but I also recognize that people have choice and regardless of what inner demons may tell you to do you have the choice to ignore them or not

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: maybe there are people unlike you, maybe your life is perfect but their are people that have problems, i have problems and i try my best to best them but i cant. sides if we have so much choices, then one can decide like: no iam not gay iam straight ^_^ and be happy? thats impossible

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: this sure was the last time start a discussion

2005-08-02 [Maurer's conclusions]: You're free to state what you think, but do not deign to expect that you will not receive flak for your opinions.

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: yeah but you don't have to bite my head off! sjees

2005-08-02 [Keii]: We know that people have problems. But we also know that some problems can be treated and looked after. Have you read any of our comments?

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: My life is not perfect, but I do have the option to drink or do drugs to try to "erase" said problems. But I best those things with the help of God (sorry, I know I'm in a pagan wiki but I have to give credit where credit is due). And people may not be able to choose whether they find men or women attractive, but they can choose whether or not to have sex with them. Which is what makes a homosexual act. Same thing with pedophiles, they might find little children "exciting" but they still have the choice to choose not to have sex with said little children.

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: yeah but you all missed the whole point, ranting on and on about that its wrong and twisted OFF COURSE IT IS, my point was, that there might be one or a few out there who choice to do NOTHING but who HAVE to live with that 'attraction', can you imagine how horrible it must be, if you are disgusted by what you want? what you truely want?

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: you can deny being gay, you can not sleep with males/females, but deep in your heart YOU KNOW that it is truely WHAT YOU ARE

2005-08-02 [Keii]: And if that truely were the case, then they would seek out help.

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: so you go to a psychiatrist: hi yes i might be pedo, please give me a pill against it? ---it doesn't work that way...

2005-08-02 [Keii]: Of course it doesn't. Bloody hell, how stupid are you. Things don't get sorted out that easily. But you get help, and after time you either get down to the problem or you don't. It's not simple, but it works.

2005-08-02 [Keii]: ((*yawns* Sorry Dela, can't stay up any longer, off to bed...))

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: No, but they have somone to talk to at least about it. Someone to help them lock those desires away. I commend those who live with those desires and choose not to succumb

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: -dont- call me stupid, ever. if i was stupid i would have never started this dicussion. but you state it like "oh you just get help and live happily ever after" maybe iam just the kind of person that something stops and thinks about people that might even have more screwed up life than we have

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: nevermind, *shrugs* i guess a discussion like this cant be had. i just sometimes think about 'the victims' in every bad case. people that got accused of murder by mistake, people that live with huge secrets etc

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: We may not be able to see it from their point of view, but that is what happens. When people suffer those kinds of desires then they realize that it is wrong and work as hard as they can to best it

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: yes and i sometimes try to figure out how i would feel if i was like that, and frankly, it makes me really really happy to know that ive just got 'my own little problems' compared to things like that

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: Why are you trying to make it seem like all of us here are the bad guys? You make it seem like you're little miss holy roller that thinks about all the people that everyone else "ignores." I have news for you, everyone finds it to be horrible that someone is accused and convicted of murder by mistake. Everyone finds that having to live with huge secrets is a bad thing. Stop making it seem like you're a lone crusader against all the evil that is Common Sense and Hard Work. You WORK to best the impulses and you CHOOSE to either give in or not. It is a choice, not predestined. Man has the choice between good and evil, not good and evil have the option of choosing which person they want..

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: on their side.

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: Then what the crap are you arguing with us for?

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: sweetheart, i dont pretend to be 'holy', by far. I just sometimes wonder: does nobody care? and then everytimes it seems proved: no they dont. and i thought, maybe here among other pagans i could discuss these things...

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: i didnt start the arguing, i merely stated my opinion about a matter, then got attackt (or atleast so it seemed trough the messages O.o')

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: I have news for you, I'm not pagan. And yes I do feel for the people who have to live with those desires, because we all can feel that. We all have desires, some may not wish for as abhorrent things as other, but we all have desires.

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: then why is it stated that my opinion is wrong? cause that is how it felt

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: I never said that it was wrong. I merely was stating that they had the choice and that it wasn't predestined for them to go "playing with little boys"

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: with predestined i never ment "you cant go around it its your fate" i ment that it got woven into your life and you have to try really really hard if you want to get it away. but it wont just poof vanish

2005-08-02 [Priest Kel]: Then your definition of predestined needs some tweakage. Predestination is a simile for fate.

2005-08-02 [Linn Scarlett]: maybe so, i never use it like that. but maybe thats because iam not english *shrugs*

2005-08-03 [Priest Kel]: Predisposed is the word you're looking for, love. Pedophiles are predisposed to that kind of behavior, but they can fight it

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: anyhow its late iam off to bed *yawns*

2005-08-03 [SilverBlue82]: Sexual crimes are considered to be the most terrible crimes by many cultures, Linn i do not understand why you would defend such a stance, would you also say the same for murders, or thieves? i hear your point loud and clear and you can read many papers which also conclude your view, but it is not a black and white situation, and there is usually much more deep seeded circumstances involved in those cases (mainly abuse from a parent or a guardian figure) not just "oh i was born this way" so your point loses validity, people who grow up in a healthy environment do not become pedophiles, unlike homosexuals, flawing your comparison

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: everybody can fight everything. ...that which doesnt kill us makes us stronger (sorry if i might have mixed the words *shrugs* shit happens)

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Ummm....I think the only way to break this up is to start singing a folk song. *sings* Ohhhh Potatoes in the paddy wagon mama says it just aint fair....Potatoes in the paddy wagain actin like she just don't care....

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: how can you be so sure of that? like i said -shit happens- in every single way. and if you start about the black/white and the defending-point again. then you still do not see what i am trying to say

2005-08-03 [Priest Kel]: She was saying that pedophiles were predisposed to such behavior, which might not be their fault, but it would be their fault for choosing to perform such an action.

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: *huggs fearie tale* lovely song :)

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: but its everybodies fault if you chose a wrong action *shrugs* thats where we have the law for

2005-08-03 [Priest Kel]: I agree that they may be predisposed for such actions, but that doesn't mean they have to choose it and I agree that the consequences for such crimes should be especially harsh

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: -_-

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: which is exactly what i was saying, unfortunately as usual, people seem to tringer at the bad words and stop reading the rest of it :( you say exectly what ive been trying to explain

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: but like i said, its late ive to go to bed, cya

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: I'll put my two cents in: Pedophelia is wrong because people shouldn't touch people they don't have a romantic affiliation with. If they love you in a romantic way, and aren't below the age of ten while you are above the age of 12, it's wrong.

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: off course it is, billions of things are wrong

2005-08-03 [Priest Kel]: That's because you haven't been choosing your words correctly. Predisposition and predestination are two completely different things, and saying that it isn't the pedophile's fault for molesting a child isn't exactly correct either. They had the choice not to do it or to do it. It is the pedophile's fault. People should accept responsibility for their actions and accept the consequences

2005-08-03 [Linn Scarlett]: fine ive been wrong ok? maybe iam not as good at english as you.

2005-08-03 [Priest Kel]: I'm not trying to be harsh with this, just pointing out your mistake so that you can fix it. Please don't take this in the wrong way as I'm only trying to teach and explain, not to make you look stupid

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: <considers, at length, reads the whole damned conversation, and then decides to jump in front of BOTH sets of firing sights...> Okay, here's what I have to say on this subject. I *do* feel sorry for people who have impulses which are negative, unhealthy, destructive, etc. -- I've been one of them. Being the victim of more than one of the aforementioned pedophiles is part of the reason I've been one of those people, so I know that it is experience, not predestination, that warps people into having unhealthy desires. And, they can be dealt with, not with an "instant fixit pill", but with long, slow, hard, painstaking work. And yes, the best case scenario may be a person who has to live

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: with the suffering that their own unhealthy desires cause them. But they DON'T have to hurt other people. And don't give me any of that "pedophiles are like gays" bullshit -- because there is a HELL of a big difference between a desire for a consenting relationship with another adult human being who desires you equally, in turn, and a desire for an act which a child does not have the capacity to understand, much less give consent to, and which WILL scar/injure/damage them for life. We may feel sorry for rabid dogs, too -- but we don't let them walk around biting people & spreading rabies, we kill them if that's what it takes to prevent that. Yes, some people may be able to control their

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: impulses, and toward them I can afford compassion; but, when it comes to choosing between my compassion for an *active* pedophile and my compassion for their victims and victims-to-be, I'll choose the kids every time, simply because THEY are the ones who didn't get to make a choice in the situation. That's what it comes down to. You may feel attracted to older men, but that's NOT the same thing as feeling sexually attracted to little kids (or even young teens) -- simply because there can be a consenting relationship, once both parties have the physical, mental, and emotional maturity to make it possible. Feeling compassion for a person doesn't mean letting them off the hook, & it doesn't

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: mean accepting or excusing actions which injure others, people who didn't get a choice in the matter (and don't give me any bullshit about kids being able to consent to sexual acts, because they DON'T have the equipment necessary for that to be possible, no matter how much of a prodigy they may be). Pity is possible where forgiveness may not be. [Linn Scarlett], if what you feel is pity, I can understand that -- but you're equating things which DON'T equate, and THAT, not your compassion, is what is setting people off against the things you've said. So don't try on the martyr hat, it doesn't fit. If there's misunderstanding here, it's the direct result of what's been said, and how.

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: I was wondering when you would show up [Rondel], and yes, do not try on the martyr hat, its not a "fashion" accessary that goes down well on my wiki. If people argue with you on this wiki then it is for a good reason. The majority of active people on this wiki are here because they know how to argue and know their own mind. Their ability to type coherant english has nothing to do with it. If I am told again on my own wiki not to have an oppinion, or to stop arging something which I believe in, then quite frankly I will ask you to read my apges all over again, because you will gain a valuable insight into how I feel about people who tell me to not voice my opinion on my own damn wiki.

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: One other point -- if a person had a disease which would injure others, not themselves, we'd still require them to undergo medical treatment, for the sake of society at large. It's called quarantine, and it's what's done with so-called "Typhoid Mary" cases, people who carry a disease that they themselves can't get, but can give to others. Pedophilia is, in my personal opinion, in much the same category. The person most harmed by it is the victim, and so for the sake of the victim(s) (according to my uncle-by-marriage, a prison psychiatrist, the number of victims per repeat offender averages 150), the pedophile needs to undergo medical treatment -- even though it may be long, slow, & hard.

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: Yes, they may suffer, & yes, they may despise themselves for the desires that they feel, & yes, we don't know *for certain* that all of those desires are caused by injury, rather than by predestination or hardwiring (brain neurochemistry), BUT, we know that the MOST important thing in the case of the mental illness of pedophilia is the prevention of the injury it causes to the victim. It is the responsibility of the pedophile to prevent that injury, whether by getting treatment, giving themselves voluntarily into custody (of either the prisons or the mental health system), or by removing themselves as a danger that cannot be prevented from doing harm in any other way. That may sound cold,

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: but as a person who lives with a different kind of health problem which impacts others, I know that I am responsible for seeking treatment for their sakes, even if not for my own. And, for their sakes, I do that. And, if they'd be better off without me in the world, I'd be out of it in a heartbeat. Maybe it's sad that anyone has to live with a condition where the choices are that hard, but nobody ever promised us that life would be easy, or fair. All we get is the choice to make the best of it, and for pedophiles, there are a limited range of "best choice" answers. Compassion, yes -- off the hook, no. It's that simple.

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: ok ive read all of the comments on this subject and im going to agree with Rondel and Dela on this one because you can choose what to do its a basic right that no one can take away from you its like sayin that a racisit has no choice but to discriminate and thats not true they do have the choice to act upon it or not they werent born like that it was the environment they lived in as kids i know that for a fact i lived in the projects i have racisit friends but i know what its like to be discriminated for hanging out with someone of the opposite color that doesnt mean im going to discriminate i had the choice and i made the choice to not do it it was that simple and yeah i know how it feels

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: to be the victim in the case i was raped when i was 12 and twice when i was 13 and me and my sister were molestdided (sexually abused is the word im looking for i cant spell) growing up does that mean were going to be the same way no cuz we hav the choice to do i know how it feels and i dont want any child to go through what we did its wrong and i feel disgusted about having it done to us i still have nightmares about it to this day so yeah this does hit home for me cuz i went through it almost every night for 2 years and im sorry you feel offeneded Linn but you have no right to tell others not to voice there oppinons on a subject

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: *fears the many angry comments*

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: dont be scared i was just voicein my oppinion like every one else

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: the word you are looking for Buddha is *molested and you are eright, no child will grow up without some form of scarring from the incident, be it mentally or physicllay this is why i fail to see any reason to defending such people who have comitted such acts. there are those who do seek help granted, but the majority of cases this is not the case. the majority of offenders go on to reoffend, more often than not becoming more violent as time progresses. the thing that truly annoys me is that such people, if caught tend to be given senttencing of life, but then walk anonomysly (sp) into society again after three or four years. not always the case of-course, but like i say,

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: this tends to happen in the majority of reported cases that end up on the news, usually after a child has just been found lying dead somewhere.

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: One last comment, and then I'm going to head to bed (and hope that the nightmares don't keep me awake, or wake up my kid if I start screaming in my sleep again) -- I think that part of what's pissed people off most here is the statements equating pedophiles with homosexuals. Homosexuality is NOT a mental illness, it is a natural variation within not only the human species, but many other forms of life on Earth as well; comparing it with pedophilia simply reinforces a stigma that our society has been working VERY hard to undo, a stigma which has been removed from all reputable medical textbooks for around half a century now. Kinsey's studies (while outdated, & now being established to have

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: erred on the side of the "norm" (according to the societal standards of his day)) showed that 37% of males experienced orgasm while in a sexual situation with another male, in the course of their lifetimes. That's a pretty big minority; if anything, the people who are at the extremes of heterosexuality and homosexuality are BOTH the ends of the bell curve, while most of the population falls somewhere in the middle, generally inclined to one gender or the other, but not exclusively so. To equate being anything other than heterosexual with being a pedophile is like equating having an "outie" belly-button with being a homocidal psychopath -- they're just not similar enough to be comparable.

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: &, given the rate of suicide among gay teens who feel like there's something wrong with them for being gay (non-heterosexual teen suicide rates are DOUBLE the average rate among teens as a group), adding to that stigma is a really cruel act, one which is precisely the OPPOSITE of the compassion which you appear to wish to show toward others. It's true that homocidal psychopaths are also sick, & deserve treatment & compassion -- but it doesn't mean that we should lose sight of the fact that they ARE ill, & need treatment, & that society needs to be protected from them. Making other people feel that way about themselves when they are NOT ill, & society does NOT need to be protected from them,

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: tends to hurt people -- on a far larger scale than most people would believe -- as WELL as confusing the issue & resulting in your intended point getting lost as a result of a badly drawn analogy. That is NOT what anyone working AGAINST discrimination should be doing; words are powerful things, and we need to take responsibility for them, and beware of using them in ways which can cause unintended harm. I don't think you meant harm, but I spend enough of my time talking to young people in that at-risk group that I, like many others here, am going to FIRST respond to the more immediate threat to them, BEFORE addressing the valid points you are TRYING to make, about the need for compassion

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: i totally agree with you cuz i cant figure out who your directing this new argument at

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: toward people who are NOT acting on their unhealthy desires, but are still unable to make them stop (especially not on their own, or with the aid of "a magic pill"). I don't know if that hell of unhealthy desire can ever be made to go away, for a pedophile -- I know that it CAN be treated, and helped, in those whose unhealthy desires are of other sorts, simply because I'm one of the people who has put in the hard work and years of counseling that it takes to make that happen. But by grouping yourself with a dissimilar disorder, I think you're also overidentifying with the people you're feeling compassion toward (pedophiles), as well as confusing yourself as to the likelihood of your OWN

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: huh im not feeling compassion for them i think they all need treatment

2005-08-03 [hanhepi]: rondel:" the pedophile needs to undergo medical treatment " no they dont. bullets are cheap, and rope is cheaper. :) why waste tax payer dollars on rehabilitation?

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: ability to be a person who does NOT have the desires which you yourself have labeled as unhealthy, [Linn Scarlett]. And that worries me, because as angry as I get when I see people's mental health endangered (as it so often can be, in the case of stigmatized non-heterosexual teens, simply by a poorly expressed thought), I get that way because I feel protective toward those who are hurt -- and it looks to me like you're speaking up on this issue in part because YOU are hurting; so, for that reason, I can't help but worry about YOU, in turn. Analogies are powerful tools, & so like any power tool, they can be used constructively, or they can be dangerous if misused. I think you've got a lot

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Oh, not you Buddha. Everyone. I fear them all.   

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: you make a good point but if there is a way to help them we as the people should try to help them overcome there desires and not just kill everyone and anyone that has ever felt anything toward a child what about the people that have beaten there desire do they deserve death im not disagreeing with you some do deserve death for the pain they hav caused children but do all of them

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: of valuable food for thought in this conversation, & I DO think that, under all of the problems caused by the way you expressed your point, you've got a valid point. It IS hellacious for ANYONE stuck in the prison of their own head with something sick & hurtful, but it helps a lot if they can recognize that THEY ARE NOT THEIR ILLNESS. I am NOT the pain I feel from what was done to me, YOU are not your desire for older men, and pedophiles are NOT their desire for children -- these things are not instrinsic to our innermost souls, although we are trapped in our minds with them. Recognizing that is one of the first steps to realizing that one CAN change the sickness, without losing oneself;

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: Rondel hun you know that the last post on the topic was made by me buddha and not by linn rite

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: without recognizing that basic fact, many are likely not to WANT to change (just as you have said that you do not want to change something which you nonetheless describe as "unhealthy" about yourself, [Linn Scarlett]), and without that desire to change, a person is VERY unlikely to put in the hard work that it takes to make that change happen -- so then they WILL truly be stuck in the prison of their minds with those unhealthy desires, for their entire lives. Given that you recognize that that causes a person to suffer in ways for which you feel compassion, I would expect that if you truly understood these things, you'd want them for ANY person suffering in the way that you describe.

2005-08-03 [hanhepi]: jugg: i'm not sugesting we cull the ones who THINK about doing it, i'm sugesting we kill the ones who actualy DO something to a kid. i'm even all for sending them to trial, and even giving them an apeal or 3. but once convicted, beoynd a shadow of a doubt, killing them, wether by fiering squad or hanging , will deffinately keep them from harming another person. 

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: *dances*

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: ive ranted enough on this lets change subjects its gettin kinda scary cuz everytime i say something you jump in after me rondel

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: I don't believe in killing a person for what they feel, [hanhepi], though I will gladly agree with doing so to stop them from doing harm, or to prevent them from doing it again. And yes, I realize that these thoughts are not in response to the last people who've posted; they're just the results of my mulling the whole conversation over, and realizing that there are some very important things I had left unsaid. Oh, and [hanhepi], what the *pedophile* needs, & what society needs, are not always the same thing. But if a person is a pedophile by desire, & doesn't want to become an offender, they need treatment. I don't say it's society's responsibility to pay for that treatment. I DO think

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: ok i was just wondering what you thought about the ones who just think about but like i said i agree with what your saying on it send them to trial and if convicted send them to death or treatment the governments choice cuz you know some can be helped other cant

2005-08-03 [hanhepi]: oh yes, if they truely want treatment, i say give them treatment, espically if they have not acted on their desires. however, rehab only works if you want to change. (so, if they are only saying "i dont want to do it again" and do not mean it, they will not change. just like drug adiction, you have to WANT the change.)

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: that it's society's job to protect its members, especially its children, from harm -- & if that means the pedophile has to die, I'd rather see them die than victimize a child. And, to reiterate, [JWOlette], these comments aren't directed at you -- they're just me finishing a train of thought, so I can be done with it & get some sleep. I wish I had time to get into what you've said, but I don't -- just enough to reassure you that I'm not ranting at you, we're just posting at the same time. 'kay? *reassuring smile* I'm not angry at anyone here, though I worry about/for some of the folks who've posted. I'm angry that people are hurt, though, & I WILL speak up to try to put a stop to harm.

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yeah you really hav to want it to make the change last or change at all

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: ok i feel a little better now it just was kinda feaky with us posting at the same time and hows the look for houses going thus far i hope you get one that suitable me and my circle are praying for you still everyday

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: *VERY tired smile* No luck on the househunt yet, but we've got a Member of Parliament willing to write us a letter of support, if it'll help any, at any point. The little one-person charity organization dedicated to helping people with conditions like ours (run on donations, by one person, themselves sick with the same thing) has now got 5,000 people on its waiting list alone. There are more of us sick with Environmental Illness all the time. We can't poison our planet without poisoning ourselves. It's a pretty simple equation of its own, really. The sicker we make our environment, the sicker we make ourselves. There, I've given you another topic of conversation... *wry smile*

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: well we will keep praying and everything and hows your husband any better

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: *huggles rondel 'til she goes pop*

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: ...not that this one's much cheerier. 3 closing thoughts: 1) thank you to all of you who are praying/working magic for my family's wellbeing. 2) I don't understand how anyone can practise earth-oriented spirituality without being actively against the poisoning of the planet. 3) Child sexual abuse is one of the risk factors for Environmental Illness (because of the effects of long-term unresolved stress on the blood-brain barrier & immune system). Food for thought, folks? {{{HUGS}}} to all, & goodnight... ...may you & yours be well, & may healing come to ALL of those who need it. "All shall be well, & all shall be well, & all manner of thing shall be well." -- Dame Julian of Norwich

2005-08-03 [Rondel]: (hubby's wounds are healing, worst one's still big, but healing... ...thank goodness, and thanks again to all of you who have prayed/worked toward that end. Must sleep now -- vital medical appointment in less than 12 hours, a 2+ hour drive away, and we're all still getting over a BAD GI bug which is making us need a LOT of sleep. But I really do wish all the best, to all of you. You are in my heart.)

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: your in ours as well now get some sleep

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: *sings* Rondel and husband are getting better....

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yeah thats always good news

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: That it be.

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yeah it be im bored

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: I went offline for oh...an hour since my last posting...there were three comment pages to scroll through to get to here o.o

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: i know i read them all too

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: There is a price to pay for running a popular site.

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yes there is

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Geez. That fight made me so upset that I changed into hyper childish-Ryn.

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: ..popular? this?

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yeah this is real popular

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Popularity is relative... I just got of the Dark Wars page, so this one seems very popular:P

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Well, perhaps active is the better word to use.

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: i bet it does

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: lol yes...dark wars is having things added to it when i can...i am making "moveable" things lol

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: The problem with Dark Wars is that the people on it are lazy... There I go, accusing myself again...

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: i dunno ive never been on it so i cant judge

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: But the person in charge is great:D

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: hehe thank you Erik :p

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: i dunno the person in charge here is awsome to

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: *blinks* if youare not careful I will actually gain some sense of self worth

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: i know *huggs* is that a bad thing

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: *hugs* no, but itd be unusual

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: for you yeah it would be

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: It's a good train. You should get on it.

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: For it can lead to the best virtue, arrogance.

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: umm no thanks ill past arrogant people make me kinda mad

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: I get kicks out of acting arrogant. It can be pretty fun actually.

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: mm sometimes but it does get on my nerves

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: lol this entire wiki radiates arrogance i think

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: That's why it's fun:P

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yeah it kinda does but its fun to argue with people

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: hehe "blah blah blah, you are a shame to your religion, blah blah blah, I'm right, your wrong, blah blah fucking playgans" is how i see this wiki sometimes

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Well so what if it is arrogant? They're inferior, and should be treated accordingly.

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yeah same here

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Some people need to learn to treat religions with respect, and if being arrogant is the only way to get through to them, so be it.

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Religions? Why should you treat other religions with respect:P

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: -_- *in whiny sarcastic voice* Do I have to answer that...?

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: :D

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: now now children, dont make me get the whip out

2005-08-03 [Zab]: wheee! Whip!

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: OoOoOo....... ^_-

2005-08-03 [Zab]: ::grins:: What? I like whips..they are..painful..O_o

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: :p

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Hmm. Weird S'n'M person...

2005-08-03 [Zab]: So...*manage to speak somewhat english* you´re discussing religions and arrogance?

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Somebodies kinkah. ;-)

2005-08-03 [Zab]: yes! I´m wierd! Whee!..you were talking about me, right?

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: hee oh yea...you've not seen my "campaig" for Dictator on Elfpak have you Erik? "Dela for Dictator, a vote for Dela is a vote to save your own life!"

2005-08-03 [Zab]: yay! Let's vote..err..

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: hahaha....woooo....

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: I haven't, but I've heard a bit about your plans for taking over the world.                         

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Wouldn't that be a lovely world....

2005-08-03 [Zab]: yeah...

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: "Why do we have to wear leiderhosen? BECAUSE I SAID SO, THAT'S WHY!!!"

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: I cannae say, haven't heard that much about it.

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: *bunnily wrath to those who defy her*

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Can't you just hear the screams of the defenseless?

2005-08-03 [Zab]: are there defenceless people? Do they scream?

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Bunny-wrath eh? Sounds special. But still, who can stand up to bunnies like the Thing in the Holy Grail.

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Luckily I've got some Holy Hand Grenades present, so watch yourself:P

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Run awayyyyyyyy!

2005-08-03 [Zab]: ooouh!..I better just go now..bye all!

2005-08-03 [a faerie tale]: Gooodbye zab.

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: bye Zab. aha! but i am not normal bunny, i am the Dela Bunny, im fucking nuke proof, they tried it, i aint glowing out of happyness thats for sure

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Well I am the Über-Iron-Shod-Shoe and I can step on bunnies:D

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: ...that works well...if you dont mind having your leg twisted off from under you ^^

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: im voting for dela so the bunnies dont get me!!!

2005-08-03 [Azuri]: Wait why would you step on bunnies?! poor bunnies!

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: noooooooooo step on bunnies thats mean

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Fine, I net them. And keep them in cages. And feed them meat from other bunnies, so that they get mad bunny disease. But as to whether such a disease could have any effect on Dela is beyond me...

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: hmmmm i dunno as long as they dont die then i dont hav to sick kojoe or pooky on you

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: nyahnyahnyah, im already as mad as i can be ^^

2005-08-03 [Maurer's conclusions]: Kojoe? Pooky? Who are these things. They seem like prime food for my net:P

2005-08-03 [Zab]:

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: ummm try again they would eat you before you had the chance cuz they is my purtyfull beloved hell hounds who do as i wish

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: aww hell hounds, they are so sweet and cuddly...right until they take your head off and play catch with it ^_^

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: my babies would never do that unless i asked

2005-08-03 [Zab]: would you ask?

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: i dunno maybe *smiles innocently* its not like ive ever sicked them on someone and told them to rip there head off and play with it

2005-08-03 [Zab]: riiight......*backs away and disappeares*

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: i like you so i would never sick them on you i only sick them on people i dont like

2005-08-03 [Zab]: Like me? ::lol:: Cool...when did you got to know me?

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: uhhh i didnt but your friendly and not annoying so thats why i like you

2005-08-03 [Zab]: ::grins:: Fair enough.

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: that and dela <3's the Zab, anyone harmy the Zab, dela will harm them -.-

2005-08-03 [Zab]: the Zab...*thinks* must be me...okie..I won't harm me..>.> <.<....

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yeah i hav immense fear of you going crazy and killing me so my hounds only kill pepole i dont like and that dela dont know

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: heehee *glomps Buddha* no worries my love, me likey you too

2005-08-03 [Delladreing]: me has been working on the EPI since 3am, my brain fried, my speaking like an idiot *smacks herself about the head with a wet dalmon filled with sand* there we go o.o

2005-08-03 [JWOlette]: yaaaaaay i wont get killed when you take over the world and we hav my hell hounds to send after peopls that dont like bunnies!!!

2005-08-03 [Zab]: aww...