The Elftown Re-Align Project

2008-05-29 [True, plain and simple]: If you have a desktop keyboard it should be next to the Scroll Lock button, likely, at the top, in the key column where the arrow keys are. Then you paste into an image editor.

2008-05-30 [Imperator]: Oh! I was looking in my IE toolbars... lol, thanks guys!

2008-05-30 [Nita]: True and I did a bit of brainstorming, and this is what we got: http://elftown.eu/_Elftown%20Mock-up%20Ni

2008-05-30 [True, plain and simple]: (without any prettiness / usability formatting of course)

2008-05-30 [Artsieladie]: On the other sites there is a "Diary" button, available like "Mainstreet", "Your House", "Blocked List", "View Messages", and so forth. I like the "Diary" button, b/c one doesn't have to go through their house, but can go straight to their diary. It would be handier to have an "edit button" available at the top of a wiki page, as well, so one wouldn't have to scroll all the way to the bottom, if they're just going to edit the page. This would be particularly useful for those that edit many pages. :P

2008-05-30 [Chimes]: *jumps in* But then one is less likely to read any changes that may have been made to said page. Or if it has both been commented on and edited one might edit the page first and forget about the comments entirely.

2008-05-30 [Calico Tiger]: ... Btw.... The title is totally Elftown RAP XD *runs off after making silly observation*

2008-05-30 [True, plain and simple]: :p

2008-05-30 [Artsieladie]: It depends how the page comes up under changes, "wiki changes" or "comments". If under both, I check both. If under one or the other, I look at what those changes are first. I go to pages very often, not due to changes, but b/c I have to edit the page. :P

2008-05-30 [Chimes]: Hmmm. Pondersome. You make a good point.

2008-05-30 [Imperator]: The list of wiki and house changes should have each individual page on its own line and with a bullet point so the titles won't string together.

2008-05-30 [True, plain and simple]: You can change that yourself with CSS, but we can incorporate something like that into the default style of course, if people want that.

2008-05-30 [Imperator]: Since I don't even know what "CSS" is I think that's a good plan. :-)

2008-05-30 [Chimes]: Cascading Style Sheets. Web-coding. :] I use it on my website, never tried doing any on here though...

2008-05-30 [windowframe]: It would be nice to be able to add a description to the top of your diary, so people could say 'this is going to be used for posting my poetry' or 'this is for rants only', and possibly add a picture to decorate it. There could either be an edit button at the top of the diary, or a separate box for in presentation-editing.

2008-05-30 [Chimes]: I like that Idea... you could design your own diary cover...

2008-05-31 [True, plain and simple]: Hmm, does anyone watching this page use IE6?

2008-05-31 [iippo]: I do. Why?

2008-05-31 [True, plain and simple]: Does it look like borders are missing on the status bar elements when you view http://elftown.eu/_Elftown%20mock-up ?

2008-05-31 [iippo]: Yeah, there's no line under "new news" to close the status box, and the left side-border of last logins doesn't go past the first name (*edit* latter one fixed itself with a refresh, but the status box doesn't). And the right sides of all the boxes don't have borders at all, they go all the way to the edge of the page, but that is intentional...?

2008-05-31 [True, plain and simple]: Oh, there's a line there if you look hard, I think. IE just gave it a very light colour; I'll fix that. The left-side border issue was what I was worried about..damn. >:0 -kicks IE6-

Yeah :P

2008-05-31 [iippo]: Ah oui, there is a white line. :P

2008-05-31 [True, plain and simple]: OK, look again? The left-border issue should be fixed entirely now, I hope! The other borders will look fine once they are given colours; just haven't gotten there yet. :P

2008-05-31 [iippo]: Hmm, at first when I opened it there were some random horizontal lines going through last logins, but they went away after a refresh and aren't happening anymore.

2008-05-31 [True, plain and simple]: Weird. I can't get that to come up, so hopefully it won't again. It's probably fixable in the same way if it does though, but let's hope for the best ;) Thanks!

2008-06-01 [Chimes]: I just had a thought. It might be handy if in the Wiki-page Data box had a link as the number, where it tells you how many watchers a certain page has, to take you to a page which tells you who is watching the wiki. I don't know about anyone else but I know I'd love to know who was watching my wikis. It would save the 'Phantom Watcher' paranoia.

2008-06-01 [windowframe]: Never going to happen. (it's been suggested before) :P You might want to know who the watchers are, but have you considered that a lot of people don't want others to know which pages they're watching?

2008-06-01 [Chimes]: A fair point. That I probably would have considered... had I have slept XD. Apologies.

2008-06-02 [Imperator]: I wish the polls wouldn't change so much when you cast your own vote. Maybe the bars can keep the same width but the one you chose can be the darker green while the rest are the regular lighter green.

2008-06-08 [Levoton]: Notification for house stalkers only when text, images or diary is updated? I don't know what all triggers it but at least getting a notification for a change of stylesheet seems redundant.

2008-06-11 [Hedda]: [Levoton]: Sort of fixed in the upcoming version. It will still notify when someone updates their name, interests and such. But not for passwords, stylesheets, time to get logged out and such.

2008-06-11 [True, plain and simple]: You're on a roll! Awesome. :D

2008-06-12 [iippo]: Would the ability to watch/get notified for poll-comments fall into this redesign?

2008-07-05 [Imperator]: Oh no! The crash got rid of my chat with someone who liked my idea of making Elftown look like a tree!

2008-07-05 [Linderel]: That was [Calico Tiger], if I recall correctly.

2008-07-05 [Imperator]: Oh no! [Linderel]'s help is unhelpful because I can't remember anyway!

2008-07-05 [Linderel]: Well, maybe if you talk to her you can puzzle it out again together :P

2008-07-05 [Imperator]: Oh no! I'm getting the feeling I should stop making these "Oh no!" comments because the last two were deleted because they're irrelevant to this page!

2008-07-05 [Artsieladie]: Just looking through the suggestions to see if it was suggested that the 'visitors to your house' list was to get removed, but I don't see anything here saying so. I guess it's a bug then? :P

2008-07-05 [All_Most PUNK]: No, it's a desicion taken by Hedda. Not everything has to be suggested.

2008-07-05 [Imperator]: Since everyone is upset about the people who have visited your house box being removed, what if we had a box that tells how many people have visited your house in the last 24 hours or in the last week? I never really cared so much about who visited my house but rather how many. :P

2008-07-06 [Calico Tiger]: Not everyone is upset about it :) We just are hearing from people who don't like something that was changed or removed as opposed to those who do like those changes :D

2008-07-06 [Imperator]: But I kinda agree with them. I did like having the feature although I'm not nearly as torn up about it as they are.

2008-07-07 [Yncke]: I think it would be nice if the wiki related things (the part of the right column with the white background in the default stylesheet) are under the wiki changes. Going through all changes takes up rather a lot of scroll work, and a new message is missed easily when browsing wiki pages.
Alternatively, all the wiki related info could be hideable like the Elftown status, so that you only see all that info when you're going to advanced edit a wiki page.

(Ooo, I like how text edit fields grow!)

2008-07-10 [Yncke]: It would be nice not to have the personal emotion wiki's in the pool of random wikis. They pop up rather often. *goes randomming some more*

2008-07-12 [Jitter]: It would be great if we could have a "mark as unread" button on forums too. Or "put under changes" so as we can re-check it. :)

2008-07-13 [Hedda]: ([Yncke]'s request is fulfilled, but those comments died in a crash.)

[Jitter]: You mean on specific postings? You want to put it like a wiki-change? Or unread the posting?

I don't think that unreading postings is a good idea. It leads to bad behaviour. The best way is to read stuff and then put them somewhere. You can for example make a bookmark on every page, but if it would be possible to make a one-time-link (Like "Put under wiki-changes"), I see the benefits of that.

2008-07-13 [Imperator]: If you click on "search" on the top menu and then click on the "vicemayor" link it still goes to [Sunrose]. Maybe it should be temporarily be changed to the Vicemayor page?

2008-07-13 [Hedda]: OK, fixed (in the upcoming version). Thanks!

2008-07-15 [Yncke]: Is there a specific reason why "Upload a file" and "Create reminder" are blue, while the other buttons are green? At the moment, I often think I have a new message when seeing blue from the corner of an eye. :)

2008-07-15 [Hedda]: It's a bug. Fixed in the upcoming version.

2008-07-15 [Yncke]: Thank you! :D

2008-07-18 [Imperator]: Why don't we have a link to the Assembly on Main Street? It only makes sense with the council having one, right?

2008-07-18 [Calico Tiger]: I agree, btw. A link to the Assembly page from Main Street would be a good way to get more attention to their existance :D

2008-07-18 [Chimes]: Has anyone else been having trouble logging in? :S

2008-07-18 [Imperator]: Not me... What kind of trouble?

2008-07-18 [sequeena_rae]: I don't have to log in anymore I'm taken straight to mainstreet

2008-07-18 [Artsieladie]: [sequeena_rae], I had this same happen with me. No login, straight to Mainstreet & I was on the 'inside', complete with all of the buttons: 'Your house', 'new messages', etc.. I also know that when I had left ET, prior to my returning, I had in fact made sure that I had logged out.

2008-07-19 [Hedda]: [Artsieladie]: Stop spreading confusion! There is no confirmation that this happened and there's no need for you to repeat the rumor everywhere where it doesn't belong.

Log outs works just fine for everyone all the time, except this one time for you, and that might as well be a result of a crash or that you simply remember wrong.

2008-07-19 [Chimes]: I log on... and I just get buttons saying 'Entrance', 'Mainstreet', 'Wiki', 'Register'. I have to try loads of times before it actually lets me on... :(

2008-07-19 [Artsieladie]: I was just replying to:
[sequeena_rae]: I don't have to log in anymore I'm taken straight to mainstreet

....B/c I had the same thing happen that she was talking about. I suppose I should have added that it hasn't happened since however. The confirmation simply meant that it didn't just happen to one individual. I hardly see a confirmation statement as 'spreading confusion'. ....And no, I 'did not' remember wrong. ://

2008-07-19 [Hedda]: [Chimes]: Clean your Elftown cookies, and it will work better. I think you're having some old cookies left that somehow got stuck. As far as I can see, you can't log into elftown.eu but http://elftown.eu/ works, and that suggests a cookie-problem.

2008-07-19 [Chimes]: Alright, thank you. I just did it so lets hope it works. It was really bugging me. All I wanted to do was get on. XD

2008-07-22 [Mordigen]: I have the same thing happen to me as Squee and Artsie -- but only if I don't log out. :P If I don't log out, and then bring up elftown again, I'm taken straight to mainstreet without having to re-log in, but If I actually log-out, then I'm taken to the entrance page to log in just like normal. I just thought it was a nifty new feature :P

2008-07-22 [Hedda]: [Mordigen]: Of course it happens to everyone. That's the point. It's not a bug just because people report it (Even if I wish people could report bugs instead of features, as I usually am aware of the later...).

2008-07-22 [Mordigen]: Ah, gotcha -- they were just making it seems like it was a bug, so I got confused ;P

2008-07-22 [Chimes]: By the way, Hedda it did work. You're a genius!

2008-07-29 [Yncke]: I have a little suggestion for the "Interesting people" feature: maybe it could only select people who have been on line the last N days?

(Oh, and I just had [Janouk] twice in the same list, does that mean she's a very interesting person? :) )

2008-08-04 [Tyr and Zao Hawk]: [Chimes] is currently unable to get onto ET/view it at all. She's tried restarting her computer and internet, but it still won't work. It's not a regional problem, and it's obviously not an entire site problem, so... any suggestions?

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: [Sunrose] just had the same problem from Portugal. Very strange as she could connect to Elfpack that is right close to it. It must be some strange routing problem somewhere.

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: But I did restart Elftown a couple of times.

2008-08-04 [Tyr and Zao Hawk]: So, no suggestions?

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: Try again...

2008-08-04 [Tyr and Zao Hawk]: Alright, thank you. ^_^

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: I also have problems

I can't connect to www.theregister.co.uk from my computer or Elftown, but from Krill. The three computers are connected through the same connection... Hm... I could try to restart the switches. A minute!

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: No, it didn't help me anyway.

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: Internet is having some serious problems. Not just me. Others are having these problems too.

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: One way to "solve it" is by changing IP-number somehow. Then some other sites will stop working. 

2008-08-04 [Imperator]: OMG! Cyber-terrorism! *runs around in circles*

So do you know what's causing it?

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: I seem to know more than the drone at Bredbandsbolaget at least. I had some faint hope that they could tell me exactly whom to blame, but no such luck. "It's probably something wrong on my computers." Bah!

There's something broken in England as far as I can tell.

2008-08-04 [Imperator]: There usually is. Oooooooo! BURN on England!!

2008-08-04 [Chimes]: After hours of trying it finally worked. It seemed you did something right, that or it fixed itself.. *is in England*

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: No, I didn't fix a thing. It's some routing problem very far away from here. Everyone else in the world could access Elftown and I could access everything except some servers in England. So there was a problem somewhere in between.

2008-08-04 [Imperator]: So... Norway?

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: Yes, Telenor I assume.

2008-08-04 [Chimes]: Ah, I was wondering what was up. One of my friends who also lives in England could get on but I couldn't. I was very confused. It hurt my poor little brain.

2008-08-04 [Hedda]: Yes, some of the IP-addresses worked. It depended on what IP you had and where you where going. There were probably people who could access Elftown, but not Elfpack instead.

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: Why am I barely hearing about this wiki? It's the whole point of crew manual/enough

2011-06-08 [windowframe]: I only just found it in my notes page, that's why! X) I'll try and find some more obvious places it could be linked, though. :)

2011-06-08 [kians mummy]: I still think we should have reward badges/competition badges in a seperate box to the crew badges box.

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: I agree! I also think every competition should have a participation award and I think that there should be two daily poems featured because so many are submitted. I also think [Hedda] should be solely in charge of who becomes crew.

2011-06-08 [kians mummy]: yes, i agree to all that you have said

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: That's why we make an awesome team!

2011-06-08 [kians mummy]: yeah lol x)

2011-06-08 [windowframe]: There IS a participation award for every contest. ;) Hedda is too busy doing all the other things that make Elftown run to also be solely in charge of choosing new crew, and trusts the current crew to do the job correctly.

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: The current crew is biased.

2011-06-08 [kians mummy]: true, [windowframe], i think there should be one dedicated member to get people onto the crew

2011-06-08 [windowframe]: That's not really a helpful comment (as in, it gives me no idea what you think the problem is or how it could be solved) - in what way do you think the crew are biased? :)

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: I think they only feature their friends or the same people multiple times.

2011-06-08 [windowframe]: I think we already discussed that. :) Two of the Main Street features don't even allow one person to be featured multiple times, crew can't be featured at all in the Featured Member and all the other features have strict rules about how frequently they can feature other crew members. The number of repeat donors to the Daily Poem, Featured Wiki and Featured Story are a fractional amount of the total people who have donated to those features.

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: :-(

2011-06-08 [windowframe]: Why the sad face? O_o

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: Thunder Cid hates me

2011-06-08 [windowframe]: Well that's not really an issue this wiki is here to try and solve. <_<;

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: You hate me too don't you?

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: Nevermind were BFF now!

2011-06-08 [windowframe]: No. :)

2011-06-08 [Triola]: Question: how would having one member pick the entire crew make for a less biased crew? o.O My brain does not get this...

2011-06-08 [kians mummy]: [windowframe] does not hate anyone, she is an extremly nice person and i love her to pieces.

[Triola] because that member can be a fully trusted member by [Hedda] and it will be more fair

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: I know!!!

2011-06-08 [Triola]: But [Hedda] isn't infallible, nor will the person he picks be. Isn't it better to have many people so that they can check each other?

2011-06-08 [Chimes]: The problem with Hedda choosing people is that he's very busy, so often doesn't have much time to interact with members - we interact though, so we have a good idea what people are like, which is pretty key in picking new crew. :)

2011-06-08 [Mystin]: *waves hands* pick me!!!

2011-06-09 [Chimes]: I don't think we're taking anyone new on at the moment. :P Still training crewbies. :)

2011-06-09 [Mystin]: Finally a real response! Thank you so much!

2011-06-09 [kians mummy]: [Triola] no as it will just be more fair, as then there won't be any victimization because say if i was a crew member, i could put a bad word in witch makes you not want me on crew so you put a bad word in for me

2011-06-09 [Linderel]: So basically you're saying that if someone has concerns about how well a person would fare as crew, they shouldn't be allowed to express it.

2011-06-09 [Mystin]: She's saying that she doesn't appreciate that people hate on her for speaking out. It's not fair that everytime someone says something Elftown doesn't like, they gang up on us.

2011-06-09 [windowframe]: I believe the immortals lines "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" may be appropriate here.

2011-06-09 [Mystin]: I see your point.

2011-06-09 [Akayume]: *watches*

2011-06-09 [Mortified Penguin]: What is this nonsense? Who is responsible for not inviting me to this wiki?

2011-06-09 [Paul Doyle]: Wow, another Elftown relic! *dramatic Indiana Jones "Staff of Ra" theme music*

(Actually, I've been watching this page for years, back when TPS and Nita were active, and forgot to unwatch---not that I'm unwatching now, though!)

2011-06-09 [Paul Doyle]: If this page is revitalized in earnest, and with redesigning et is taken more seriously by this website as a whole, good things might happen provided they are not bogged down by unneeded drama. That's all I'm going to say, unless specifically addressed. ;-)

2011-06-09 [windowframe]: Redesigning ET IS taken seriously. It's just on a hold at the moment due to me not being able to download the software I need to play around on the test server. Because Apple are being idiots and want me to pay £120 for an upgrade and not sell me the £20 upgrade which is all I need. But I should be able to solve that problem this weekend. I don't promise that stuff will then start happening at warp speed or anything, but rest assured, the redesign is still go. :)

2011-06-09 [Akayume]: Maybe I'll return from Italy to a new ET. :P

2011-06-10 [Mystin]: I can't be on here if [Paul Doyle] is because I can't deal with his hypocrisy. I just can't. *Unwatches*

2011-06-10 [Paul Doyle]: Whatever, [Mystin]. It seems like you can't deal with anything. *shrugs* Maybe we should rename silly-pants [Mystin] Brave Sir Robin. Anyway, [windowframe], that sounds cool! *kicks Apple*

2011-06-10 [Mystin]: Support Our Guards NOW OPEN!

2011-06-12 [djxmonster]: This is a fantastic idea!

2011-06-14 [Paul Doyle]: era , along with Redesigning et , ought to be re-publicized on Mainstreet. Just my opinion, but I think these would get more interest than yet another contest, possibly generating more sustained interest in Elftown including those huge-supply/tiny-demand contests? Just a thought.

2011-06-14 [windowframe]: If you're suggesting a news item, that's not a bad idea. :) I'll make one soon.

2011-06-14 [Paul Doyle]: *puppy-dog anthro-dragon eyes?* Please?

And the there's always food to restart, but that's an entirely different can of worms ;-)

2011-06-14 [windowframe]: I have no idea what the food thing is, though I'm watching it (and I also have no idea why I'm doing that :P)

2011-06-14 [Paul Doyle]: food was one of [Anonymous]'s pet projects, back in a primordial Elftown era. Everybody that had "Fast Food Worker" in their descriptions (or a lot of them, anyway)was on there. Eventually someone ([Anonymous], I think, before he left ET) deleted it entirely, after commenting "this page is obsolete." (This was back when the "tech" feature was accessible on the presentations.) 

2011-06-14 [windowframe]: Ah. And you want to revive it in exactly the same form?

2011-06-14 [kians mummy]: can you put a note on when inviting people from forums or wikis to your wiki that inviting people may result in being reported, and put somewhere on elftown that elftowners who invite wikis or forums can not help invite people from them wikis/forums

2011-06-14 [Mystin]: I have announced this one many other wikis, so why not here? It's not a suggestion, it's a special gift from me to anyone! I'm offering my graphics arts services on any wiki, any diary, & any presentation. I have highlighted examples on my house in their own individual wikis. As an EG Artist, I take pride in all my work and having done many course in graphics, each day I try to expand my knowledge. I'm doing this because I love Elftown and I want Elftowners to use my services if they would like to. Thank you so much for reading. Do not disregard this message as unhelpful or random chat. It is me doing my part to keep the fantasy alive!

2011-06-14 [Akayume]: @Sammie: I understand the first part of your statement, but not the second. What?

2011-06-14 [Mystin]: Hello watchers of this wiki, I just want to take a moment of your time to say: I'm Sorry! I'm sorry for any ill things I may have said in the past and I apologize for anything said that was cruel and indecent. I assure you that does not highlight my true colors in any way, shape, or form. However, I too am real human flesh and bone and occasionally lose my cool. With that said, after much time and countless messages with the crew and myself, I now see the error of my ways. I was downright forward to a point of being impolite and it was wrong. From now on, I can assure you, you will receive nothing but respect from me & I have mastered the art of replying to comments I don't agree with in a respectful, understanding, & calm manner. I must say this because I'm ashamed at the actions I was taking. There will always be different topics and issues I may disagree with, but from now on I will reply with the utmost respect towards all. Thank you for reading! <3 Jay

2011-06-14 [Paul Doyle]: [windowframe], I'd like to see food revived in a very tongue-in-cheek, fun and casual way. It need not be official, of course. I'd also like to see signs of life (and interest) on community, which was the unofficial heart of Elftown back at the dawn of time and somehow everyone seems to have forgotten about it since then.

Anyway, my point regarding silly places like food?

Making interactive-happy places like redesigning et and era busy spots could have ripple effects on the other "forgotten classic" places as well. There's so much good stuff laying low on this website that most newer Elftowners don't even know about.

2011-06-14 [windowframe]: I know what you mean about community. I remember when it was a hive of activity too, but it seems harder and harder to get people to use pages like that nowadays. (even though lots of people still run RPs, and complain they don't get enough advertisement, they never bother to list them on Text Adventures). I believe [iippo] is working on a clean-up/redesign/faff of the community wiki and its subpages

2011-07-02 [Lord Josmar]: I think that the random button for the Username section could be a bit more random. It seems to like showing me the same people four or five times in an hour. And, I don't know if this is only me, but I hate it when I get index pages for user house pictures when clicking the random wiki button.

2011-07-03 [Stephen]: I hate it when I get index pages for user house pictures when clicking the random wiki button.


Agreed.

2011-07-03 [Paul Doyle]: I might be spinning wheels here, but it still is a sentiment of mine, after all these years---

Actively encourage anyone and everyone who has problems with ET's basic rules, art-upload policies (which could be a heck of a lot tougher but aren't, thankfully) or who thinks the "fantasy" pertains to cyberdating, to head to Elfpack. Though I no longer log in there, and still wouldn't log onto EP even if I was under the influence, I can see EP needs its own revival. I base this on EP's stats: 459 currently active members (out of 55478 current EP "houses"). Wow! and I honestly thought EP would catch on when given enough exposure . . .

Anyway, improve both sites by reviving both EP and ET. If they seem like they don't belong on Elftown, then they probably don't. They really ought to be on EP instead, and if they like both sites that's fine provided they adapt to knowing what's good on ET might not be the same thing as what's considered good on EP. Prior to final warnings and bannings of useless disruptive ET'ers who should have stuck to Elfpack all along, heartily encourage Elfpack to these people in a way that's neither condescending nor nasty. If we want to get more artistic people here (and not merely people who steal art, and so forth) then we need to reach out to artistic people! The moment new high-caliber artistic Elftowners see what's frankly trash and deadweights, they'll leave and not come back, badmouthing Elftown as yet another site for bored Myspacers and inappropiate for anyone "serious" about a true artistic e-community.

all that being said, I think Elftown has come a long way in coming full circle to once again being a place about artistic people (and not the very Elfpackish people who tend to drive them away!) If I didn't feel strongly about this, I would not have become truly active again (though for a few years I did little beyond logging in and looking around). I still firmly believe this site has had much better days, and I believe it's been severely damaged (but not fatally) by past crew corruption, backstabbing and conniving, ignoring the concerns of core ET'ers who care about this site (dismissed merely as "drama" or "conspiracy theories" when the difference between that and actual ET drama and conspiracy theories are pretty obvious, in hindsight!), giving the not-artistic people TOO much leeway, tolerating repeat troublemakers simply because they donated money, and whimsically fucking with Elftown features that should have been left alone, already. And I could go on and on about fucking with the "official" statuses of the Herald and the ET Academy, but . . .

Why bother?

In my mind, anyway, all of this shit is in the PAST. Let that which happened in the past, remain in the PAST. At the same time, there's lessons to be learned here and none of us who've been around experiencing this stuff firsthand, are angels. (I know damn well I'm no angel! I made mistakes, too, and I like to think I've learned from them.) Let's come together as a community without being fascist about it, and make this site attractive and viable again. There's already signs of that happening. Let's do it! Revive ET and EP together, because if you help one you help the other. The results might be pretty cool?

(I have absolutely no current interest in joining the crew, by the way. I'm just speaking my mind.)

2011-07-03 [Lord Josmar]: Well said Paul!

*Hides "Paul for Crew" signs"

2011-07-03 [Stephen]: Good idea, Paul. Nice speech. =)

2011-07-11 [Rainbow Dragonflies]: I'm just going to be honest here and.. well say something that I've discussed with a very confused [Viking]. I have a hard time with the forums. The way they're set up is completely unfamiliar and confusing (and if I'm sure of the way to use them, it's really inconvenient to read the new postings).

If I'm just a nincompoop let me know, but either a short blurb on how they function or a possible redesign to make them flow a little better might be.. nice. I feel like I would be a lot more active on here if I was comfortable on the forums :B because I'm a forumwhore.

2011-07-11 [windowframe]: I think Hedda is exploring/considering ways of improving them, though they're never going to be like "normal" forums. But there are help pages about how to use them: have you looked at those, or do you find them confusing too? (I would link directly to the help pages, but if you don't mind I'd like to see if the help index is any easier to navigate and find what you need now).

2011-07-11 [Rainbow Dragonflies]: The help index is really easy to navigate, but the section on forums just... made me a little more confused. Maybe I'm just a little slow? I'm also used to really common forum formatting. It just seems like it could be simplified to a great extent - the trail of replies just is.. long and complicated.

2011-07-11 [windowframe]: Score on the help pages, at least. :D

You could use the thread view to get a better overview of an entire thread, but the reply trail is really useful if you're actually talking in a thread, 'cause, well, it makes it really easy to tell who's replying to what. :P I've been trying to think of a better way to arrange the thread-view that would also show which replies we responses to which threads more easily, but the usual ways such as indenting a reply probably wouldn't work so well for ET's forums.

2011-07-11 [Rainbow Dragonflies]: I didn't even know that overview button was there. That works a lot nicer XD; Perhaps implementing a 'quote' system? Although that would seem to organize the forums in a more.. chronological order and... would make it harder to read the replies quickly. And I agree indenting really wouldn't work. Hm :/ That's difficult.

2011-07-12 [Paul Doyle]: Before I turn this into yet another long-winded Suggestions forum post, may I first see if people would be interested in this idea?

Anyway, here it is: Give people more incentive to donate. (I don't think anybody really cares about multi-colored text and username-sparkles anymore. So 20th Century,) If they do donate (this is NEW donations by the way) US$25 or more, they no longer have to put up with hideous ads for however long they are logged in. If they donate US$50 or more, everyone they've invited to Elftown who are in good standing also get this feature (if they misbehave, they lose the ad-free status).

Granted, people will be reluctant to donate at first. Because of many unpleasant experience I've had on ET, I still haven't donated since 2003. Yet since I'm willing to put the ET past behind me, I'm willing to donate the moment I have the expendable income (that is, when my wife gets a job or if I get somewhere with my writing).

Hopefully, once enough people donate these detrimental ads will no longer be needed---and then we can think of new and better rewards for all of those who donated (not useless titles, mind you). but we will get to that, when we get to that.

First we need to really get more people aware of redesigning et and reassure them that ET will not sell its soul to the devil (or what have you) simply because a facelift's essential to providing a fertile ground for a better, more vibrant community. :P

2011-07-12 [Paul Doyle]: Well, what do you know? it IS long winded enough! *submits to Suggestions forum, anyway*

2011-07-12 [windowframe]: Or €20. :P But I think that's a good suggestion. I know DA does something like that but it's a yearly (or monthly?) subscription thing. So it gets rid of them for a year/month, and if you want to keep them gone you need to subscribe again. I dunno if subscribers have any other perks, since I barely use DA. <_<

I'm not sure about the "everyone they've invited to Elftown who are in good standing also get this feature", I think that would just prove to be a circumstance for too much bitching and whining, (plus, y'know, one person donating €35 euroes and getting donors privs for them and 6 friends isn't as good for ET as if they all just donated €20.

2011-07-12 [Paul Doyle]: Whatever currency is most convenient . . . given the US dollar crappiness, the euro makes more sense. (The futurist in me wants ONE currency, but that's so "United Federation of Planets" of me :3)

2011-07-12 [Paul Doyle]: (I haven't updated/donated to Elfwood or dA in ages . . . so busy in real life, and most of my non-family free time is dedicated to the ongoing monstrous first draft of "Telkar Chronicles: Book Two. so the artwork has low priority right now.)

2011-07-12 [Paul Doyle]: I just noticed this era page is not exported. Maybe we could export this page so disgruntled/disinterested quality Elftowners can see that active ET'ers are taking ET's improvement seriously? (And maybe seeing this page might motivate these people to return to ET---hopefully to stay---to share their own quality opinions?)

2011-07-12 [Lord Josmar]: I suggested something similar in the forums about a month ago concerning the donations so I am for that.

2011-07-12 [Karithina]: dA has quite a few premium features... but not many of them are are relevant to ET (most relate to selling prints, how your art is displayed etc). I'd say the most relevant ones would be: No ads, beta-test new features, track your visitors and the ability to skin your journal. Although I don't know if many would be pleased that donators can see even the hidden folks that look at their page...

I think if donations did allow ad removal, I wouldn't mind it being something you can enable or disable as they do on sites like Reddit. ET is one of only a few sites that I turn my ad blocker off for :#O

2011-07-12 [Artsieladie]: Personally, I don't have any real issues in regards to ads [Hedda] places on Elftown, for the simple reason, he needs income to live as everyone does, but it isn't "free" for him to keep Elftown online, either, or so I would imagine not, and then [Elftron] needs to be maintained too, of course. If one were to look at the wiki-page, Donors of Funds, it is quite evident how little is actually donated in comparison to the number of members. It's sad, really. It also seems that most, once they have donated, then that's it and don't ever donate again, which is also sad. But there are also many members on Elftown that just aren't capable of donating for different reasons. However, there are members on Elftown that are capable of donating more than is donated.

Somewhere on Elftown I have a wiki-page on which I put on it some good ideas on ways to bring in more money for Elftown. *will look it up* A couple of the ideas I had were:

Encourage more donating by offering special badges for those that donate multiple times; put in place "Annual Donors" which would acknowledge those that donate annually; allow members to "sponsor contests", which these would be acknowledged under "Contest Sponsor Donors".

A very brief synopsis: Those that sponsor contests, their name(s) would be added to a contest page they were sponsoring and they would be "donating to Elftown" for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd placements. This is why there could be more than one "contest sponsor". One sponsor would "donate to Elftown" the equivalent to "full donor privs" (20 euros) for 1st place; one could "donate to Elftown" for 2nd place for "regular donor privs" (10 euros); and one for 3rd place 5 euros, which would require a 3rd place winner to either add on another 5 or 10 euros to acquire the privs they would like -or- if they won another 3rd, they would then 'accumulate' enough for regular donor privs.

By having "contest sponsors", the proceeds of would go to Elftown and the winners would also acquire the benefits of 'donor privs', which would be a win-win for both participants and Elftown. Secondly, such would also add more incentive towards "contest participation" from members.

For those that win contests and already have donor privs, they could then choose a member of Elftown they would like to give them to, which would then make them be "donating in the name" of another Elftowner in essence.

This is just a couple of basic ideas I have had in my mind for quite some time. But... they certainly could be re-worked, so they could be implemented.

2011-07-12 [Paul Doyle]: I cringe at the idea of "contest sponsors". It sounds like that shady little ploy on Writersco a few years ago, when they wanted to raise funds for an anthology that had yet to be planned and published, so they insisted people pay contest entry fees. (Scam 101, folks!)

Of course I could be under the wrong impression. Perhaps we could see more about these links?

2011-07-13 [Artsieladie]: Paul, there is no mention here in my writing about or even hinting at, anyone 'paying to enter' a contest. So please don't knock my idea based on something else, somewhere else that doesn't even remotely relate to what I am saying.

2011-07-13 [Lord Josmar]: I think that the synopsis/idea is very confusing as is evident in Paul's misunderstanding (no offense intended towards either [Paul Doyle] or [Artsieladie]). Also, I suggested upgrading badges for repeat donors in the suggestion forum and was met with disagreement.

2011-07-13 [Artsieladie]: It may be a little confusing because I was trying to not make it too lengthy, but even so, "contest sponsors" does not even begin to correlate with, relate to, what Paul said: "...they insisted people pay contest entry fees. (Scam 101, folks!)"

No where do I mention about participants paying anything. Besides, I also said, that my idea could increase incentive to participate, which if people had to pay to enter, I don't think this statement I would have made then, either.

Donating and the repeating of donations should be encouraged somehow. The number of donations to Elftown is really pitiful, really pitiful. :/

2011-07-13 [windowframe]: Stop telling us what you didn't mean and clarify what you did, then! X) When I read it I didn't really understand how the contest sponsors would really be any different from normal donors who donate in someone else's name. (My interpretation of what you said was that essentially, someone donates to 'sponsor' a contest, and then the winner of a sponsored contest gets donor privs?)

2011-07-13 [Paul Doyle]: Contests are often feebly-supported, at best. Much of this was caused by controversy in past official contests. This might have caused a domino effect of disinterest affecting even the private contests, though to be fair most private contests generated even less interest than the official contests. Many ET official contest regulars stopped entering because of all these real or perceived controversies (favoritism, trying to sidestep uploading art rules, poorly-conceived themes, demands for special exceptions, and so forth). No surprise, many people including myself stopped entering ET contests for exactly those reasons.

So now, Sharon, you want contest sponsors to pay to hold these contests? (That is how I understand your idea now?) If you think the ET contest scene is pathetic now, you'll really be disconcerted by the complete lack of contest activity once people are told they have to donate to sponsor contests. In the real world people are frequently struggling to make ends meet even as taxes and gas prices are raised relentlessly. Nobody wants to fritter away hard earned money on contests that may or may not succeed.

There are other ways of getting people to donate, of course. When the site is active again (and not hampered down by G-men threats or love triangles or anything else that frankly nobody gives a shit about) contest activity will increase, and be the symptom of a website rising from the ashes of the past.

Let's focus on the website itself first, then worry about the contests later. There's been a lot of forgiveness and reconciliation of late. That's the first step. Now we need to work together. If the website is dead, there is no watershed.

2011-07-13 [Paul Doyle]: And [windowframe] , thank you for exporting this page!! :)

2011-07-13 [Artsieladie]: Excuse me for mentioning my ideas. :(

2011-07-13 [windowframe]: I don't think most members know or care about any past controversy in contests. :P Contests entries were bulked out by users who 'came in, looked about, went out', as it were. They stayed for a few months, then left. But we had a steady stream of them, so there were always new ones to enter the next contest. Now we have far fewer members doing that kind of thing, and I think even for our core members the novelty of entering contests can wear off. :P

Also, in terms of closing and having winners announced, I can't think of an ET contest that hasn't "succeeded". Participation is down, sure, but unless your idea of a successful contest is having X amount of entries (which I'm assuming it is, but of course correct me if I've got totally the wrong idea), then they're still succeeding. The money wouldn't be any more 'frittered away' than any money donated to help keep Elftown running, it seems (if I understood Artsie correctly, and feel free to still clarify if I haven't, Artsie) that it's essentially just a new way for someone to decide in whose name to donate - 'I'll donate in the name of whoever wins that contest!' Though it could lead to badging complications. Would the get the donor squirrel badge as well as the contest winner badge? I've always tried to avoid giving two different badges for the same thing. And maybe if donor privs/a year subscription (if that idea of getting rid of ads via annual subscription) was an additional prize for winning, more people would participate in contests. We can't put all ideas on the shelf until ET gets more active members, we need to try at least some of them to help it get there. :3

I don't think this site has ever been hampered down by love-triangles, squares, or even pentagons. Octagons maybe? X)

2011-07-13 [hanhepi]: Still reading everything here, but I gotta weigh in on this Paul: "insisted people pay contest entry fees. (Scam 101, folks!)"

Paying to enter a contest isn't really a scam. The Rodeo circuit operates that way, or at least it used to. You payed an entrance fee, and however many entrance fees were collected determined the prize amounts for the winners. ('Course, there were operating costs for the Rodeo, Arena, stock suppliers etc. that were deducted first.) I'm certain there are other examples like that, but that's the one that comes to mind first.

2011-07-13 [windowframe]: I know that several big-brand book stores have held writing contests you had to pay to enter. The entry fee was something like £5-10, but you got something like £500 for winning. I presumed the entry fee was what paid for the prize money.

2011-07-13 [hanhepi]: I'm not sure that a new badge would be enough incentive to get people to donate. I mean, you already get a badge, colored text and sparkles, another badge won't suddenly make people want to donate.

Getting rid of the ads for donors is a better option, but considering those ads go away with a free adblocker program, that's not a huge incentive either.

Having a contest with an entrance fee and a cash prize might work, but then again, God only knows what sorts of tax complications that could cause.

[Figment] suggested that I mention this a while ago: Offering some sort of tangible prize for a contest. Doesn't have to be new, but if we could offer a used camera for a photography contest prize, or a used tablet for an art contest, it might increase contest participation. Or even Jewelery or something. More people might be willing to donate used items to our cause than cash. For a contest with a tangible prize like that, a small entrance fee ($5/£5/5 euros or whatever) could work. Deduct shipping costs for the prize, and whatever is left from the entrance fees would be pure profit for Elftown. 

2011-07-13 [windowframe]: ET does actually have a cafe-press store. We could always revive that and offer merchandise from that as a prize, I guess? I dislike the idea of ET contests having entrance fees, though. It would put me right off entering, for sure. <_<

2011-07-13 [hanhepi]: that could work! actually, as purely a way to increase contest participation, that would be awesome.

actually, as a way to generate funds that could work too: "donate $20 and get a free t-shirt!" (make it the $8.99 value t-shirt)


i'm not super thrilled about entrance fees either. but as a way to generate funds, it could work. i'd think it would need to be a super awesome prize though, no one is going to pay $5 to enter a contest where the prize is a $3 Button. but even i would pay $5 to enter a contest where i might win a tablet. i might go as high as $10 to try for a tablet, if i could come up with some art i thought stood a chance.

2011-07-13 [windowframe]: It's the 'come up with art that I thought stood a chance' which I suspect would be the killer for most people. If there's an entrance fee and such a tangible prize you're definitely going to be 'in it to win it'. It could actually reduce participation because no one is going to enter unless they thought they could win.

2011-07-13 [Lord Josmar]: I think the idea of tangible prizes (like those listed above) would definitly boost contest participation, but what about shipping and packaging fees? Who would pay for those?

I apologize if this topic has already been discussed.

2011-07-13 [Lord Josmar]: I just got a great idea! Elftown auctions!! It could work like ebay and users could donate items to be auctioned off to other users. Could be another badge too.

2011-07-13 [Lord Josmar]: For the donater, not the buyer.

2011-07-13 [Paul Doyle]: There used to be an elftown merchants. would something like this, but in a more modified form (where the proceeds definitely go to the website proper, and not someone's pocket), be feasible?

2011-07-19 [Artsieladie]: I decided to use one of the contests I created to perhaps, better indicate what I mean in regards to "Contest Sponsors": Elftown_Crest_Contest. I'm sure there are angles I haven't thought of, but working out a few wrinkles to make an idea doable shouldn't be a problem.

2011-07-26 [Paul Doyle]: I'd like to see the relation-ending system message removed. Though I sense this question has been asked before, I think it's time Elftown took this suggestion more seriously. Notifying so-and-so you ended their relation causes drama and makes the Elftown experience that much less pleasant. I say this from experience, being both on the giving and receiving ends.

Nowadays I simply delete the relation-ending message before the recipient gets the message to avoid the drama and butthurt (ignorance can be VERY bliss, especially with that Nazi wannabe I just deleted!), but not everybody knows or uses this trick. Could we not follow Facebook's lead, simply by making these relation-ending moves cold and painless and quiet? Thanks.

2011-07-26 [Stephen]: I second Paul's suggestion.

2011-07-26 [Mortified Penguin]: I prefer to know when someone has ended their relation with me.

2011-07-26 [Paul Doyle]: Maybe it could be a customized option in the presentation, based on each Elftowner's individual preference?

2011-07-26 [iippo]: I third the idea (I too use the trick).

2011-08-03 [kians mummy]: "I always end up clicking the wrong button when I try to click the random wiki search button. It's frustrating..."

2011-08-03 [Stephen]: Well, do you think the buttons should be relocated or something of that sort, then? :3

2011-08-03 [kians mummy]: They should be a bit more spaced out so they are easier to click on. :)

2011-08-03 [Stephen]: By a "bit more spaced out", what exactly do you mean?

I don't suppose you could draw some kind of a picture?

2011-08-03 [kians mummy]: i'll see what I can do, but stay online, wont take long x :)

2011-08-03 [kians mummy]: All that needs doing is about to more enter taps on the key pad between all the search buttons then it will all work out

2011-08-04 [Paul Doyle]: Another idea: could we please get rid of the "flirt" feature? That's so totally Elfpackish and completely against what ET is supposed to be. (Also---does anyone actually use it?)

2011-08-04 [Mortified Penguin]: I'm sure they do, just not with me...

2011-08-04 [AuroraLumos]: I'm pretty sure no one I know uses the flirt feature. I certainly don't anyway.

2011-08-04 [iippo]: I used it on all of my friends when it was first made...

2011-08-04 [kians mummy]: I do

2011-08-04 [Stephen]: I don't believe I've ever flited with anyone, other than to perhaps send a "hi" as a flirt as a joke a few times.

2011-08-04 [kians mummy]: I#'ve done that, it can be used for a bit of fun between friends

2011-08-05 [Alexi Ice]: I think I used it once because I was like 'wtf is this thingy?'