2007-03-06 [Angelic nightmares]: What I meant, if person one draws custom poines, and person 2 buys the cheap little pony toys and paints a symbol on its rear end, is person 2 copying person ones idea?

I'm sorry I didn't explain it that way before. I thought it would have been understandable. Not saying you guys are stupid, just understandable to the point I was trying to make.

2007-03-06 [Titanium Tiger]: well can I have one on my house please!! I would really like it for my art!! Im not one to post pics of myself Im what you would call self consious about my body!! wheighing 220 lb is not flattering!!

2007-03-06 [Calico Tiger]: Yes, [Titanium Tiger], there is now a warning up in your house :)

2007-03-07 [Calico Tiger]: We're not too concerned about stolen "ideas", [Angelic nightmares] :) Technically, anyone who creates their own fanart of My Little Pony would then be stealing the person who originally thought them up and sold them to the store's idea, hehe. It's really just another form of fanart, so yes. It's alright for them to post the photos of the painted ponies (as long as they were the one who painted them).

2007-03-07 [Titanium Tiger]: yes THank you soo much!!

2007-03-08 [Linderel]: I think I'll be wanting that nekkidness warning now. :3

2007-03-08 [Calico Tiger]: Done, [Linderel] :)

2007-03-08 [Linderel]: Thankies! ^_^

2007-03-20 [dead~spirit]: Can i get a messege above my house that reads "Caution: Bio-hazard, read at your own risk." It would look really nice.

2007-03-20 [Paz]: No, the SS warnings are for serious things (mostly), like artistic nudity. Place a warning like that in your house description instead :P

2007-03-21 [SlumDumb89]: Can a gaurd really message me ASAP!

2007-03-21 [True, plain and simple]: What do you need?

2007-03-21 [dead~spirit]: Well what would I have to do to get the messege put up there?

2007-03-21 [Sunrose]: [dead~spirit]: [Paz] already answered your question; you can't get an SS like that, you can put it in your description though.

2007-03-22 [dead~spirit]: What if I donated money?

2007-03-22 [Paz]: We'd love you to but it doesn't matter. You cannot get an SS message like that over your house! Place such warnings in yoru house description if you want it, end of story.

2007-03-23 [dead~spirit]: Damn, I thought for sure bribing would work..hmm...

2007-03-24 [de Morte]: I was wondering if I could put voice clips on my profile, and if so, how to do it.

2007-03-24 [Angelic nightmares]: I know we can chose a name for a donation...but can we donate in a wiki's name? Like instead of so-and-so donated such-and-such@wiki donated?

2007-03-24 [Sunrose]: Why would you do such a thing? (just out of curiousity) :)

2007-03-24 [Angelic nightmares]: I'm in a wiki {gods little haters} and we're having a Banner contest. The winner of the contest would receive a check from me, for $10.00 the owner of the wiki, the wonderful and talented [dead~spirit] suggested donating in the wiki's name. So I was wondering if this was at all possible to do?

2007-03-24 [Sunrose]: So you would want Donors of Funds to say that gods little haters donated to Elftown?

2007-03-24 [Angelic nightmares]: Is it possible to do that?

2007-03-24 [Sunrose]: It's up to [Hedda] whether or not to accept such a donation, personally I feel donations come from members rather than their wikis. By donating the member receives a donorleaf, a badge and use of colours, which isn't the case for the wiki.
Aside from that it seems like an attempt to get the wiki advertised through donors of funds, which seems a misuse of the funds-wiki and kind of unfair to other users and their wikis...
But who knows [Hedda] might feel differently :)

2007-03-24 [de Morte]: *clears my throat*

2007-03-24 [Calico Tiger]: Putting a link to voice clips is fine (where people have to manually click on them). Embedding voice clips is both not wanted nor supported in Elftown :)

2007-03-24 [iippo]: But you could always do the prize for the winner as a donation in their name, so the winner of the banner-contest gets the donor badge and the colours in their house.

2007-03-26 [de Morte]: And how would I go about doing that?

2007-03-26 [Calico Tiger]: Well, upload the voice clip somewhere, then you either just put the url in your description as is, or you can use the following format (use the < > thingies as indicated):  <url:http://www.enter.url.here>

2007-03-26 [de Morte]: Thank you!

2007-03-27 [Sharky87]: How do I get priv99? :D

2007-03-27 [Ocean Soul]: By promising not to upload any illegal/copyrighted material.. will give you the priv :)

2007-03-27 [Sharky87]: I've never uploaded any of that.. just check my house.. ^_^

2007-03-27 [Sunrose]: Send [Ocean Soul] a message in which you explain the Uploading Art Rules to her in your own words, as proof that you read them :)

2007-03-27 [Sharky87]: XD I just dont upload art of others, or pictures I've found on the net.. I upload things I myself have made. Either paintings, drawings and photos.. ^_^

2007-03-27 [Sunrose]: You should also consider this though:
To upload your image full-size you can use the feature 'Upload a folder of images' that is shown on your house.
This feature allows you to upload one, multiple images or zip-files in their original size to a wikipage.
<URL:upload_zip.html>
Once you click this link you can follow the instructions. See also uploading images. :)

2007-03-27 [Sharky87]: okies..thanks.. ^_^

2007-03-28 [Angelic nightmares]: If someone were to leave Et would the SS comments remain on their pages?

2007-03-28 [Sunrose]: Yes..often times they will :)

2007-03-28 [Teufelsweib]: mostly when someone leaves elftown, it goes unnoticed ;)

2007-03-29 [Gabycat]: Hello, a friend linked me here to ask for help. May I request the guards for a banner, to indicate I have no interest in sex, or sex offers from any member in Efltown, even less if they are rude and that's the only interest why they even left a message in my page, please?
Thank you for your kind attention.

2007-03-29 [Sunrose]: We don't write such SS-comments, you can write it in your description though..

2007-03-29 [NamelessMerc]: You know, I can't help thinking there should be a notice on this page about that. Or a wiki detailing what SS warnings are given for. There's a lot of people who come here asking for SS-banners that aren't given out.

Then again they'd have to read the guard page long enough to find the information/link.

2007-03-30 [Gabycat]: thank you, I followed your suggestion. ^_^

2007-04-01 [Alastair]: OBJECTION!
There's clearly a contradiction. The defence presents evidence: [FiSHr.], [Leara], [Steel Mal'ak], [Aegiss], [Pluto], [frogster], [CherryBlonde], [Stratakus], [BarleySinger], [Qibossa], [Lyndarsia], [Melocrie]

2007-04-01 [Ultiem]: he is right...there are others im sure

2007-04-01 [True, plain and simple]: It's not a contradiction - Those notices were written before the policy of not giving them was adopted. Just because [Sunrose] didn't use the word "anymore" doesn't make her statement any less valid. That's all there is to say about that, really.

2007-04-01 [Ultiem]: so does that mean what you are saying is that SS comments don't have to abide by new policy changes, but members do?

2007-04-01 [True, plain and simple]: Eh? I'm saying that we don't give those SS messages any more because they are of no use. However, it's not worth the effort of going to take all the ones posted years ago (etc.) down.

2007-04-01 [Ultiem]: mmmm i see ...

2007-04-01 [Sunrose]: Me too..

2007-04-02 [Lothuriel]: hey can someone please tell me why I am denied access to my own wiki called Between Bright and Dark 3? I think I may accidently kicked myself out of my own forum. Is that possible and if so, how do I fix it?

2007-04-02 [Sunrose]: I switched it to viewable by owner only :)

2007-04-05 [Vampire Akis]: Why is [O'saku] banned?

2007-04-05 [Alastair]: For causing numberous problems.

2007-04-05 [Mortified Penguin]: Surely that's supposed to say "numerous"?

2007-04-05 [Alastair]: Most likely.

2007-04-06 [Ultiem]: if they gave reasons for bannings in the SS' it would prevent a question

2007-04-06 [Calico Tiger]: It already says so in the SS comment, [Ultiem].

2007-04-06 [Ocean Soul]: People are banned for misbehaving. I don't see why we should always specifiy which rules they broke (in some cases it is a quite long list, too).

2007-04-06 [Mortified Penguin]: And sometimes, people get banned even if they don't break rules...

2007-04-06 [Ocean Soul]: Mhh.. no, I don't think that really happens.

2007-04-06 [Mortified Penguin]: Oh yes it does... I was banned for saying "*eats ramen*" too much... no warnings or anything...

2007-04-06 [Calico Tiger]: That is called spamming, Penguin. And you've known the rules before. Whether you do it on another account, the same account after being given another chance, or whatever you're up to, the rules stay the same.

2007-04-06 [Mortified Penguin]: That was over a year ago on this account... there was no warning, no previous chances, or anything... and saying a phrase too often is not spamming. It was more of a "tagline". Had I said it over and over and nothing else, that would have been spamming. And what about people who always use a smiley after every sentence? Is that spamming?

2007-04-06 [Teufelsweib]: this wiki is not meant for random comments, please remove those to a wiki meant for chatting. you can try now for example, lots of other articulate people are there like you.

2007-04-06 [Sunrose]: Writing a random "tagline" on an official page is still considered spam. This wiki clearly states chat is unwanted and back then warnings were posted several times to keep chat off the wiki. You knew the rules, but you did it anyway. In return we made it clear this is not accepted.
Plus, you and Turkey were both causing trouble in several ways, and he had access to your house at that time.
See also these messages aside from the above: [25453904@] & [50534269@]

2007-04-06 [Mortified Penguin]: I didn't use it on official wikis, mainly just on Anthro Lovers. And Turkey was on my name a looong time after I was banned and unbanned for my one and only "offense" on here.

2007-04-06 [Mortified Penguin]: And, I was told not to be harassing anyone else on their wikis, not to not eat ramen... My point in all this being, I should have been banned for the harassment, not the ramen eating.

2007-04-06 [Sunrose]: You were warned about anthro-lovers in [25643798@], aside from the previous general warning in [25453904@].
Wherever and whenever you wrote it, it was noticed and perceived as annoying behaviour that needed to be dealt with strictly.
Spamming is harassment too.

2007-04-06 [Mortified Penguin]: That wasn't the annoying behavior though... it was my other often said comments, such as, "HOOOOKERS!!" as well as the occasional "*throws viagra around*"... and the non-sensical and random numbers, letters, and symbols...

2007-04-06 [Mortified Penguin]: Now, as to keep this wiki open for people who really need help, I suggest we either end this discussion or go to now, like [Teufelsweib] so condescendingly suggested.

2007-04-06 [Sunrose]: Stop wasting our time with this retarded nonsense. You were banned for just reasons as you well know and I don't care you didn't like the bancomment.

2007-04-08 [dead~spirit]: Im sorry to sound intruding, but he does have a point sunrose, I don't understand why members cant argue with the guards about circumstances.. [X name] was banned just for argueing about a scientifical picture that was taken of a solar flare, which was ment for the purpose of others to use and look at.. now true he broke the uploading arts rule because it wasn't his..but he should atleast be able to appeale. I can name circumstances all day, [Mortified Penguin] seemed to have more then one reason to be banned, but to use a reason like the ramen eating, just makes the guards look unprofessional, and that reflects on the rest of elftown, and even [Hedda] himself. I myself have had only one major problem that occurred with the guards and that was with my GIF banner for Gods Little Haters it was removed because it was "annoying" that was the initial statement.. now im over that, im just trying to make a point to the guards here.. Do you think that MAYBE in some circumstances you are not taking the right actions. And also, when you are wrong, you can apologise... I think this is a serious problem that drives people away from ET.

2007-04-08 [Sunrose]: Members can discuss our actions with good arguments. However most of them don't know what they are talking about, they didn't even bother to read the rules.
Saying you didn't like the bancomment even though you admit violating the rules isn't a valid argument against the banning. So no, Mort doesn't have a point at all.
[X name] didn't discuss the matter, he attacked the Guard calling her a 'bareknuckle boxing match' (whatever that is) and 'demanding' to know who reported him, followed by threats against her.
In case of your gif I think it was annoying too, those are against the rules.
Bottomline being that nothing was done in these instances to apologise for. But I can assure you that I have apologised when I've made mistakes, I just make my decisions carefully enough to not let that happen as much as you seem to think.
People are not driven away by that, they are driven away because they don't like the rules themselves that we are enforcing. And in that case they should go to a place with rules that is more to their liking.

2007-04-09 [Angelic nightmares]: So if a guards finds an image annoying, its automatically removed?

2007-04-09 [True, plain and simple]: Annoying animated images may be removed. The "annoyingness" has to to with the animation effects, not the image's content. This is specified in the Uploading Art Rules (See S-1).

2007-04-09 [Angelic nightmares]: Like with my drawing of the two men? When the guards claimed it was porn, it was removed. There was nothing wrong with the image. You can't even see the men doing anything! I even went as far as messaging [Hedda] to get his opinion on it. I wanted to know if he thought it was art or porn, and he clearly said: "I don't think it's porn and I don't understand why [Calico Tiger] thought that. We had it up for discussion, but no one remembered to note something about it, so I can't find what we agreed on." He also included a the following wiki link Angelic erotic art which I have/and am currently using.

Will I get banned for putting it back on my house, where the image rightfully belongs? Instead of it being hidden, and shunned because a few immature people want to think its porn! My hosue has an SS comment about artistic porn. And still, my image was deleted.

I had it posted on my house for quite a long time. And out of nowhere it was removed. Which in all honestly, greatly p-ed me off.

2007-04-09 [Teufelsweib]: that discussion is over and you got the solution; the wiki link. why are you bringing this back up? starting the discussion all over again won't suddenly give you those rights.

2007-04-09 [Angelic nightmares]: I was just wondering if I was going to be banned for posting it back on my house.

2007-04-09 [Teufelsweib]: I don't know if you'll be banned, but it'll be removed again for sure :)

2007-04-09 [True, plain and simple]: To [Angelic nightmares]: I will look into the issue (mainly to see if I can locate the discussion about it). It's advisable that you do not post it on your house again in the mean time. Does that sound reasonable enough?

In either case, it was removed because of pornography rules, not anything related to it being "annoying" or anything similar. Whether we decided it was indeed a violation of those rules is something that I have to look up.

2007-04-09 [Angelic nightmares]: Thanks [True, plain and simple] I just wanted to know if I was going to be banned. But I guess until then I can wait.

2007-04-09 [Mortified Penguin]: I would think that anything sexual would be considered pornography...

2007-04-09 [Calico Tiger]: And something in your post there, Angelic... Your house warns about "artistic nudity" NOT artistic porn as you said in the above comment "My hosue has an SS comment about artistic porn". The statue of David is artistic nudity. Two people having sex IS nudity... but it's also porn :)

2007-04-09 [True, plain and simple]: Yes, [Calico Tiger] is right. The image is not allowed directly in your house as it was determined to have violated the Uploading Art Rules dealing with pornography. You're welcome to have it on a wiki-page as your currently do, though.

2007-04-10 [Angelic nightmares]: There is no proof the guys are having sex. But I'll drop the issue.

2007-04-10 [Sunrose]: Because of course there are other reasons why people would lie naked on a bed in such a position. One is pushing back the legs of the other, putting themselves so close together that it looks like (upcoming) penetration.
Whatever you were trying to draw, this is what it ended up as.

2007-04-10 [Angelic nightmares]: It was supposed to be a guy and a girl, but I drew the one on top too muscaler. But like I said, I'll drop the issue!

2007-04-13 [dead~spirit]: Wait... so Sunrose you just admitted yourself that the picture portrays "that it looks like (upcoming) penetration." but if that is true then it does not display actual pentration.. I would like you to post the webster definition of sex on this wiki, and or I can if you wish please to display the true nature of what sex really is..

Surely you are not trying to rewrite what real art is, and what real art is not..

Did you know that a lot of Greek art consisted of two Greek women and a Greek man laying in bed naked, some with the man laying on the woman, but there was no penetration.. A lot of these displays can be found in museums around europe and Italy, which are indeed the benchmark for art.

In Rome, paintings or Orgies was consider art, and still to this day, these paintings are displayed in museums around the world as well.. surely you do not argue with the worlds professionals about what is art, and what is porn..

2007-04-13 [Calico Tiger]: <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softcore_porn>

The image is porn, even if it is softcore porn. It is not allowed to be posted in your houses. A private wiki page is fine. If the rules are too difficult to understand or you simply choose to dislike them, feel free to join a website that allows you to post all the porn you wish to.

2007-04-13 [iippo]: When discussing art, you have to remember where the image is displayed. Nobody goes to museums to wank, thus more explicit things might get away with murder (also note that not everything in museums is art, some is there just because it's old, and the ancient Romans were among the worst gutter brains of history), but people do go online to wank. And it's not something ET is about, so it'd be preferable that people wouldn't go on an ET-member's page to masturbate, or even get turned on. It's just not a cool idea. :/ Private wiki is different, because people who don't want to be confronted with these kinds of images can avoid them. For example, I use ET as a tool to do my work in university, so there is constantly other people around who see what I am doing - the last thing I want them to see on my screen is two people on top of each other in a pose like Angelic's drawing, whether or not you can see their dicks or cunts. Because at a glance that picture looks like porn, and Angelic knew it will look like that when s/he drew it.

2007-04-13 [Sunrose]: Actual penetration doesn't have to be visible for the image to be pornographic, as Cali showed. However I did not say that images of sexual acts, even pornography, can't be artistic. But it being artistic doesn't automatically mean it isn't pornography and that we must allow it.
And for the record: The definition of sex is not simply intercourse. Penetration is not required for sexual activity.

2007-04-14 [Angelic nightmares]: [iippo] I'm a she. Hence my screen name.

And now that I know what you said about school, I understand you're point of view. And I can understand the problems an image like that can cause in school. You draw a fairy, and naturally you have her nude, and of course the teenage males of the class, get a kick and make a scene of the naked fairy that was drawn on poster board.

But honestly, I highly doubt theres a man/woman out theres that jerks off when looking at my house. If they do, I would like to meet them. Because theres not much to jerk off to on that house.

2007-04-14 [Sunrose]: Your screenname can just as well be used by a male, there's no gender in 'Angelic Nightmares'.
We don't disallow pornography because someone might masturbate to it, pornography isn't a necessity to masturbate so disallowing it wouldn't make any difference. None of us can know what others do when looking at a house, so it's pointless to discuss it.
We don't want porn displayed on houses for 2 main reasons:
- even though pornography can be artistic, it's not the kind of art Elftown is about. Elftown is about fantasy and science fiction art. To display pornography one can go to http://fake.swedma.com
- not everyone wants to see porn. This applies to older members who don't want it thrown in their faces, and younger members who are probably too young for this kind of material.
You can however make a private wiki where people can choose to look at or not.
The rules on pornography are not going to change and neither is the decision on your piece. We have given enough explanation and clarification, therefore this discussion is now over.

2007-04-14 [Ocean Soul]: The discussion is over now!

Both sides explained their point of view and unfortunately, there is no way to talk porn into not being porn or fantasy or whatever. It can be both, but you see: It will still also be porn. The porn part of the image is not allowed in the house.

The end.

2007-04-16 [dead~spirit]: Hmm, thats odd, why do all my post get deleted off here?

2007-04-16 [Ultiem]: elftown guards mainly [Sunrose] are fascist nazi cunts who don't know shit about art they jump to clusions without getting all the facts....you guards dont know jack shit copyright laws [Just.Kate] bought the rights to use those cliparts but you cry because she created a free to use clipart image thats better than the rest  goddamn cry babies follow your own fucking rules.

2007-04-16 [Just.Kate]: The most you could do, under Elftown rules, is change the UARs and disqualify me from the contest. [Sunrose], as a lawyer, you should understand more than anyone the loopholes in copyright law. Purchasing a liscence before using the work, so long as the liscence rules are followed, is like paying a royalty, and exempts the end user from any copyright infringment. Oh duh! The SS comment went too far.

2007-04-16 [Calico Tiger]: Ultiem, there will be no more comments like that on this page or any other. DO NOT swear at and harass ANY Elftown member. Consider this your warning. Any further comments such as that (not saying that you dislike the guards (btw, thanks for that insult) but the nazi cunts remark) on this page will be deleted. Continue and you will be banned.

2007-04-16 [Calico Tiger]: Also, both [Ultiem] and [Just.Kate] need to read the Uploading Art Rules again. Specifically rule G-2

Images from other sites are not allowed even if they are "free". Note that:
- Taking an image and editing it does not make it your own. This includes, but is not limited to, photomanipulations.
- Dollz and similar "assembled" images are not considered to be "made by you".

2007-04-16 [Calico Tiger]: As for why it was disqualified from the contest. It was a design the guard uniform contest. Not use someone's clipart and submit it for your entry. That violates the rules and the spirit of the contest. Even if you only traced instead of assembling, it was still using someone else's design, not your own original.

2007-04-16 [Just.Kate]: Still, I feel the "notorious art theif" comment on the house went a bit too far.

2007-04-16 [dead~spirit]: What about my comments disappearing on this wiki?

2007-04-16 [Calico Tiger]: Kieli, you've been banned from Elftown before for art theft. You've entered official Elftown contests before and entered stolen artwork. You were allowed back in as a test to see if you'd stopped. We were happy that you seemed to be doing your own artwork finally. I'm more than happy to link your old houses for everyone to let them know who you were if you keep pressing, but I'll let it stay quiet for now with them asking you and you deciding whether or not to say. Regardless, even though I was not the guard that posted that SS note, I do still agree that it is apt.

As for you, [dead~spirit], likely your comments are being deleted for continuing to argue about something that was said to be done with. I don't know as they've been deleted before I've seen them, but I assume that to be the case. I'll leave that for the guard that has deleted them to answer :)

2007-04-16 [Just.Kate]: -shrugs- Well, I don't have to be in a place where I'm not wanted either. It's okay. I'll just focus on my work for FAKE, my new marriage, my son, and my possibly joining the military. My plate is too full to argue about pixels on a screen.

2007-04-16 [Sunrose]: There's nothing creative or own-made about putting two images into one image:
http://www.fyredrake.net/gallery.cgi?mangaclipart04.jpg
http://www.fyredrake.net/gallery.cgi?mangaclipart05.jpg
And there's no loophole for such images in Elftown's rules (whether UAR or contestrules), as Cali perfectly showed.

2007-04-16 [Ocean Soul]: I deleted the comments, because the discussion was over (at least that's what I thought and got from the other comments as well). A lot of people watch this page and when a discussion only circles around the same point without getting anywhere, it's time to end it.

On the other matter about [Just.Kate] - I don't see how you still refuse to see the point, and I think that's what makes it worst in my eyes. You get the task to DESIGN a uniform and you put two images together and say that's fine because they were free to use (not on ET! Read the rules!) and you used 'creativity' in this as well? Creativity? Where and how? Because you put them next to each other instead of above each other? Because you didn't put them upside-down?

Explain how you had to use enormous amounts of "creativity" to make this image and I might just change my point of view, but until then:
Accept the SS comment on your house, as it is true and deserving.
Don't enter contests as you don't seem to be able to do something yourself (Calico is right, we were all rather happy that you did something yourself after the Potter incident (which also still makes me angry), but as we can see - it's just one more act of art theft).

2007-04-16 [Ultiem]: you only change the rules to suit you anyway thats why we won't bother with you ‹14s....

2007-04-16 [Ocean Soul]: You could be a bit less vague here.

2007-04-16 [Calico Tiger]: Ultiem, the rules were not changed. Where are you pulling this theory out of? What are you referring to? What exactly is your problem? Please give an exact example of what exactly you are talking about and when. Otherwise, please do not just throw out random, incorrect accusations.

2007-04-16 [Ocean Soul]: That's what happens when you don't read the rules properly in the first place, I guess: Everytime you look at them, you discover new things.

2007-04-16 [Sunrose]: Actually I don't see why you, [Ultiem], are commenting at all, as the issue doesn't involve you in any way. Though I am aware that you work together with [Just.Kate] on Fake (and are apparently involved romantically), this does not mean you have to get down here and throw a fit. I don't even truly understand what's with all the bitterness and don't really see the need for it either.
I suggest though that if you have an actual problem with someone here, it would be better to actually deal with it civilly on a personal level. Rather than taking it out on everyone who happens to be here.

2007-04-16 [Sunrose]: [Angelic nightmares]: Your comment has been copied to [Dark Erk]'s house in a report, please don't post Guardreports in comments :)

2007-04-16 [Mortified Penguin]: Shouldn't very vulgar usernames be banned?

2007-04-16 [Sunrose]: Such as? :)

2007-04-16 [Angelic nightmares]: Sorry [Sunrose] I didn't think I could put that in a report on the house. Thanks for letting me know though.

2007-04-16 [Mortified Penguin]: [~*~The One And Only~*~]?

2007-04-16 [Sunrose]: @ [Angelic nightmares]: It's okay and you're welcome :)
@ Mort: Hmmm we don't generally censor names, unless it's racist or really offensive or something along those lines. In this case we could message her asking her to change her name, but personally I feel I've seen worse.

2007-04-16 [Mortified Penguin]: I have too... but there are kids here... easily impressionable kids, I might add...

2007-04-16 [Calico Tiger]: Then those easily impressionable kids can go to Elf12 :)

2007-04-16 [Mortified Penguin]: But they're already here... and they don't feel like it!

2007-04-17 [Killopkie]: It's not like they can really do anything about children seeing content. It would be stupid if all the profanity was filtered.

2007-04-17 [Mortified Penguin]: Not all the profanity... just the profanity in usernames... because you see the usernames whether you like it or not. In comments, in the Last logins, and in the most recent visitors to your house... and with a warning at the top of the users page that there will be profanity, those children can know not to progress any further...

2007-04-17 [Killopkie]: That would waste too much time and effort. Ultimately not being worth it because a hell of alot of people use profanity in their profiles.

2007-04-17 [Killopkie]: You can't stop Every single car on the highway thats not goin the speed limit.

2007-04-17 [Mortified Penguin]: With enough policemen, you can...

2007-04-17 [Sunrose]: [Killopkie] is right that it would be an impossible task, there's never going to be enough Guards to monitor 7000 members 24/7.
Aside from that [Hedda] is against censorship (though racism and harassment are exceptions). He's an opposer to those languagefilter programs, so obviously he's not going to use his Guards as such.

2007-04-17 [Angelic nightmares]: If the guards uniform image was stolen, are you still going to use it? Or run another draw the guards uniform contest?

2007-04-17 [Calico Tiger]: No, we're not going to use it :) As is being discussed (kind've) on the Design the Guard Uniform page :)

2007-04-17 [Mortified Penguin]: I never said that all the guards would have to do it... or to even change all of the members who already have it... just to prevent future members from putting certain words in their name... and we can't depend on [Hedda] forever......

2007-04-17 [Ocean Soul]: Well, I personally am against filtering as well >> I've been in communities that used loads of these filters, and it felt very bad. Not because I use many of these to-be-filtered words, but it still leaves a bad feeling somehow. And I don't see why someone shouldn't call themselves a weird name (like 'mother fucking princess'). It shows clearly a state of mind or whatever and you can chose to talk or to avoid that person. Very simple.

2007-04-17 [Mortified Penguin]: You can also choose to talk or avoid them by looking for the guard warning at the top... which, uh... I guess would also take a long time to place... unless a warning is automatically placed on the house of someone who uses curse words in their house or username...

2007-04-17 [Sunrose]: Considering [Hedda] is against those filters, he's definitely not going to put one on Elftown. Not only because of the censorship-issue, but also because they usually cause more problems.
And for Elftown's rules and programming we do depend on the owner.

2007-04-17 [Mortified Penguin]: If [Hedda] ever has some kids, then maybe...

2007-04-17 [Sunrose]: Maybe what?

2007-04-17 [Ocean Soul]: He would still refuse to add filters, I'm sure ;P

2007-04-17 [Ocean Soul]: And generally: If you don't want your kids to see certain things, don't allow them to register here/watch them when they browse the town >_>

2007-04-17 [Mortified Penguin]: Maybe, just maybe, he will change his mind about filters... or raise his kids to be perverts... like I hope to one day do with my children.

2007-04-17 [Mortified Penguin]: Parents wouldn't have to watch them with those filters... and it'd bring in more members (maybe)...

2007-04-17 [Sunrose]: I don't think so, he's one of the most liberal people here and is very pro-liberal upbringing.
Perversion is subjective anyway :P
Filters aren't the answer to every problem, they're not an answer at all as they don't actually work properly.
Shielding your child from every bad aspect of reality isn't going to benefit them. In fact you will not give them any tools to deal with what will be part of their reality at some point.
What you're saying is that parents should let some faulty program do the parenting for them.

2007-04-17 [Ocean Soul]: Which words would you filter? Fuck? Shit? >> Although I'm not a frequent user, I would still hate to have them filtered out =P
And the point is that most words grow to be actually bad only in combination with others. But you can't filter out all words or all possible combinations.

Aaand - come on, don't allow your kids to use the internet, listen to the radio, watch TV or play video games, if you want to prevent them from getting to know these things. Also forbid them any contact with other human beings... spoken language is not being filtered either, but it still somehow works.

2007-04-17 [Mortified Penguin]: Mainly just 'fuck'. And parents can't be there to watch their kids at all times, so yes, the faulty programming should be there to assist. Also, as I said earlier, not everything should be filtered... just the usernames.

2007-04-17 [Calico Tiger]: Parents are responsible for paying attention to what their children watch and do. And they can install their own filters on their internet browsers. We are not going to censor language like that. Please stop debating your preference for that on this page. Feel free to debate it in the general debate forum, suggest it in the suggestions forum, but do not clutter up the Guards page with it. *whaps Penguin* Tool :P

2007-04-24 [Hedda]: A side note there: People with filters installed in their browsers are risking to get kicked out of Elftown as they are causing problems. The typical case is when they edit wiki-pages to add a poem or something like that, and then the fucking moron malaria infected filter idiot plug-in deletes words from the previously submitted poems.

People who are afraid of words should be shot. At least a little in their asses.

2007-04-24 [Mortified Penguin]: I'm only afraid of the words "ebola" and "prenuptial".

2007-04-24 [Ocean Soul]: I'm only afraid of the ebola-virus, not of the word ebola =P Duh.
Enough chatter though :3

2007-05-06 [taylor miller]: hey cuards someelf have nuditym on her page

2007-05-06 [someelf]: XD You call that nudity?

2007-05-06 [Calico Tiger]: There is no nudity on [someelf]'s page. Please pay attention to what you're actually looking at and please read the Secret Service message at the top of her page.

2007-05-24 [The Gray Wolf]: Would this be allowed if I put Flyff@wiki on it?

<URL:http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j145/Ryu_photo/800.jpg>

2007-05-24 [Sunrose]: (please replace 'img' with 'url' in the link :)
It doesn't look to me like you created it, it's therefore not allowed to use it as a wikibanner..

2007-05-24 [The Gray Wolf]: Then how come you let others use the pics of bands and whatnots as long as it says something like icp@wiki on it?

2007-05-24 [Sunrose]: We don't, unless they created it themselves (like fanart).
If you see such an illegal banner it ought to be reported, otherwise how would we know about it? :)

2007-06-02 [Fitzy Spyder]: A bit of advice for you guys, If you find it offencive, but its not stolen, just look away and don't click it. But if it is a stolen image or pornographic, report it and then step back and let the guards do their work and don't question their judgement, they know the rules better then you do and they are most likely better informed. And remember, Have fun! ^.^

2007-06-02 [The Gray Wolf]: Oh, and I've also noticed that [Sunrose] is the only guard doing anything... As far as taking picture's down.

2007-06-02 [Calico Tiger]: It's a good thing for all of us you know what every guard is or is not up to then, eh, [The Gray Wolf]? Please keep the random comments off of the page so that those with actual problems or questions for the guards can be answered instead of missed in random chatter spam. Thank you.

2007-06-02 [The Gray Wolf]: Actually I don't know, she's the only one I've seen working, I have seen you a few times though. And it's not completly random, it's about the guards isn't it and isn't that what this wiki's for? And by the way, since you've been to my house you should know just to call me Kiro.

2007-06-02 [Teufelsweib]: the guards do much more than what you see, so don't make any conclusions without knowing anything about it. and as [Calico Tiger] said, stop spamming this wiki with chatter, you can use other wiki's for that.

2007-06-02 [The Gray Wolf]: That's what I'm trying to do. Sorry I'm not as polite as probably supposed to be(most of us arn't) but this place is called Guards, don't you think it's appropriet to talk about them?

2007-06-02 [ally]: To them, about real problems or questions. Too many people have this page on watch to use it as a ranting page. Make your own wiki call it guards are lazy and link to it. Further comments about this will be deleted.

2007-06-02 [The Gray Wolf]: ^^' Geez your straight to the poin arn't cha. Okay, how about this, what are the guards other jobs besides deleting pictures and banning members?

2007-06-02 [Teufelsweib]: maintaining and updating the rules, make sure everything goes smoothly, discussing matters about Elftown itself... and most likely more that I don't know about ^^

2007-06-02 [The Gray Wolf]: Interesting, and thank you.

2007-06-02 [Sunrose]: I'd like to make a final comment, seeing I was mentioned:
A lot of work is done via the private forums, but I also don't think you're able to precisely track which Guard has been where doing what.
So it's not very nice to my colleagues to imply they're not doing anything, we all deserve the same appreciation especially since we're all volunteers :)
Replies can be posted on guards are lazy..

2007-06-21 [Angelic nightmares]: Not bringing up the same situation, just a similar one. The images at art or porn are similar. Ones guy on guy, the other is girl on girl. I want to know what makes the female appropriate, and the guys not.

2007-06-21 [ally]: Uploading art rules third general rule.
Nudity is allowed, sex isn't. The images on that page leave no doubt what those characters are doing and thus both violate the rules.

2007-06-21 [Angelic nightmares]: How are the females having sex?

2007-06-21 [ally]: :) Sexual intercourse
Sexual intercourse is also defined as referring to any form of insertive sexual behavior, including oral sex, as well as anal intercourse. The phrase to have sex can mean any or all of these behaviors, as well as other non-penetrative acts not considered here.
It's wikipedia but I tend to agree with it ^^

2007-06-21 [Angelic nightmares]: Then, why can people post images of real naked females, on their houses? And whats the bloody point of the SS comment on my house about the nudity, if I can't post it? Besides, if I'm not allowed to post my art, then why can [Nekko fox] post his? Why can [Skydancer] post his? I love their those mens work, don't get my wrong, I just think its not fair. So if I posted an photo {that I took}, of some random nude person, that would be ok?

2007-06-21 [ally]: Your art is allowed. As long as it doesn't depict any sort of sexual action you can post it on your house, otherwise you can put it in a wiki.

2007-06-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: I have a question! If somebody has art in their wiki and they are claiming they did it 100% no help from anything, but you know and have proof that these pictures are actually paint-by-numbers, is it against the rules for them to be saying things like that they based it off of pictures of old friends and that they are originals?

2007-06-21 [Angelic nightmares]: So then...this is allowed? And appectable? http://elftown.lysator.liu.se/img/photo/80937_1182446973.jpg

2007-06-21 [Calico Tiger]: As long as the photo was of you (and not underage), was a photograph taken by you and the subject gave permission for you to post them (and still not underage), then yes. That is fine. A drawing of a nude woman is fine. It's even tasteful. If she had her hand in her crotch playing with herself (or spreading oneself in another case that was done), then it goes from tasteful nudity to porn.

2007-06-21 [Angelic nightmares]: But I thought, once an image was taken, it was yours, and that it was copy-rigten to you. Is something like a photograph is yours, can't you do what you want with it? And No I'm not trying to get my self banned.

2007-06-21 [Calico Tiger]: Now, for Jeesum's question: It's situational, Jeesum. In the case of a paint-by-number, there is no issue. If they're talking about how they did it all with no help anyhow, well... to be honest, none of us care :) They still painted it. Who cares what smack they talk about how awesome they are? If it's someone else's artwork and all they did was add a mustache (this is just an example), ie edited someone else's work, then it's just art theft.

2007-06-21 [Calico Tiger]: Well, see now you're walking into one of those hazy areas, Emma :) The problem with what you're asking now, about photographs, has different laws in different places. [Hedda] or [peura] or someone from Sweden (or who knows this law exactly) will need to correct me on this one as I don't recall the law exactly. But just because you took a photograph of someone doesn't mean that you can post it as you like. For example: [ally] takes a photo of me and uploads it to her house. She did not ask my permission to put it up and I don't want anyone seeing it and I want it removed. By law in Sweden (where Elftown is based), they are required to remove the image at my request.

2007-06-21 [Angelic nightmares]: Not everyone is from Sweden though. But I do understand what your point is. So if I take a nude picture of [-dot-], just sitting at his computer, or in the bathtub, {not focusing on any personal areas} providing he says its ok, I can post the image on my house?

2007-06-21 [Calico Tiger]: Yes, not everyone is from Sweden, but since the server Elftown is on is in Sweden, we are bound by its laws :) As for posting the picture, I don't personally see a problem. Again, it like depends on the content of the image, but from what you described, I can't see an issue (omg, pun not intended).

2007-06-21 [Angelic nightmares]: I'm gonna take this to messages...

2007-06-21 [Jeesum Crowe]: So what's the difference now between doing a paint-by-number and saying it's your original work and copying something and saying it's completely original work - I thought that was against the rules. Don't the paint-by-numbers need to be credited as paint-by-numbers?

2007-06-21 [True, plain and simple]: Is there a specific case that you're talking about (it seems so)? If so, you can message me the details and I'll take a look and make a statement based on that example. :)

2007-06-30 [Mortified Penguin]: Why does my old clone [El Asesino de pavos] say it was banned for being, "...a clone of troublemakers..." Do I look like more than one person to you?

Now, may I have my old houses back? ([El Asesino de pavos] and [Sir Soapy])

2007-06-30 [ally]: To answer your questions:
Yes
No

2007-06-30 [Vampire Akis]: Ehmm... Dear guards I need your help. And sorry about this BIG comment but I didn't know who to ask. I want to translate the news, but I don't know how to make this:

2007-06-30 [Teufelsweib]: perhaps you could look at how the dutch translation was made, and do the same as that one :)

2007-06-30 [Hedda]: Use the qt-tag!

2007-06-30 [Vampire Akis]: Thank you both!!!! ^^

2007-07-03 [Alastair]: What, so you guards can read our messages? What about our privacy?

2007-07-03 [Linderel]: They read messages only when necessary - for example, if someone reports harassment in messages, those messages are evidence that the guards will have to view.

2007-07-03 [Alastair]: How can you be certain?

2007-07-03 [Linderel]: I would like to think that the Guards are all mature enough to refrain from abusing their powers. And so I do.

2007-07-03 [Alastair]: Well, I don't.
IMO they should only be able to read reported messages. Nothing more.

2007-07-03 [Teufelsweib]: then don't speak about private matters in messages if you think that any of the guards has time or thinks your personal matters are interesting ;)

2007-07-03 [Alastair]: That's not good enough. I think YOU should pay more attention to OUR privacy. OR at least INFORM people that THEY do not have ANY here in Elftown.

2007-07-03 [Sunrose]: In reply to only being able to read the reported message, that's a bad idea for several reasons:
1. Harassment often takes place in a series of messages, rather than one. To judge the situation properly, you'd need to see the entire series in question.
2. The reporter at times is actually the one who started it all. If I were only able to see the message that the reporter reported, there would be no way for me to find that out.
3. Most members report 'harassment', they don't link us to the specific message. I can't only read a reported message, if I'm not told which message it is. Which means I'll have to look at all the last messages between the two members involved.
I could think of a couple more reasons.

There's no such thing as privacy on the internet, everything you put online can be seen by the person(or people) who owns the place you put it on. Only a select few Guards in the team can read messages and they were appointed by [Hedda].

I think you are just upset because you got reported and warned for sending crap to another member, which is the only reason you drew Guard-attention to yourself in the first place.

2007-07-03 [Alastair]: Think what you want. I'm concerned of MY privacy.

2007-07-03 [Sunrose]: That's fine, then do not put things online anywhere that contains sensitive information.

2007-07-05 [Ultiem]: once people realise everything they say here is recorded somehow then maybe things be fine?

2007-07-05 [Teufelsweib]: how? hanging up a big note on the mainstreet or the login portal to make elftown look unfriendly and rather threatening? =/
"everything you say can and will be used against you"-idea.
if people find it necessary to know if it's possible for others to read their messages, they'll definitely ask or look around for it ;)