2011-03-21 [Alexi Ice]: No clue, maybe Hedda or Silverfire?

2011-03-21 [Chimes]: This one was [Sunrose]'s according to the first version.

2011-03-21 [Akayume]: Most of them can only be edited by council members though, correct?

2011-03-21 [Mortified Penguin]: Nope. Editable by anyone.

2011-03-21 [Akayume]: Hmmmm. That's silly.

2011-03-22 [Ravendust]: I'll keep an eye out as well. :)

2011-03-22 [Alexi Ice]: That is pretty silly...huh. Just post them here if you find them, Raven ^^

2011-03-22 [Mortified Penguin]: Is it really necessary to keep posting them here and clogging up the wiki? Couldn't we just change the owner to [Hedda] or something and save you guys the trouble?

2011-03-22 [Alexi Ice]: He probably doesn't want to own all of those pages. Just shove them here for now Un-owned official WIKI pages and we will give them to active crew members

2011-03-30 [windowframe]: A few days late, I know, but [Alexi Ice]: changing the ownership to Hedda is precisely what you should do. It saves squabbling amongst the crew and Hedda doesn't mind.

2011-03-30 [kians mummy]: why don't they do the updated dates much

2011-03-30 [windowframe]: I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Sammie?

2011-03-30 [kians mummy]: Eyden Of The Leprechauns] - Eyden Crew Application Updated: 1/15/11

2011-03-30 [windowframe]: That shows when the user last updated their application, and let's us know that we need to look at the app again. :) Maybe they haven't updated in a while because they haven't had anything new to add.

2011-03-30 [Akayume]: When you update your app, you say when so council members will take a fresh look at it. (:

2011-03-30 [kians mummy]: ok lol

2011-05-30 [Lord Josmar]: Yay for sorted!

2011-05-31 [kians mummy]: lol

2011-06-13 [Mystin]: I updated my app and it's back up. Thanks!

2011-06-13 [kians mummy]: how did [Mystin] get straight up to medium

2011-06-13 [Akayume]: He added himself back, Sammie. We had previously sorted his app. into medium. (:

2011-06-13 [kians mummy]: ok, no worries, didnt know you could put yourself back onto medium afer you have deleted yourself, thats a bit confusing

2011-06-13 [Akayume]: Well, I'm not actually sure. But seeing as how I believe nothing was changed, I don't think that would change our sorting. If the app hasn't been changed, there's no reason to re-sort it. (:

2011-06-13 [hanhepi]: it looks like some bits were changed, but nothing that would drastically alter where he was placed.

2011-06-14 [Mystin]: Both [nehirwen] & [Rice] would like me to get better and not forfeit my application. Thank you all for understanding.

2011-06-14 [kians mummy]: can someone proof read my a please x)

2011-06-14 [Akayume]: We can't proofread in that sense, but why don't you send a friend a message and ask them? (:

2011-06-15 [kians mummy]: done, my usual mate [Mystin]

2011-06-20 [windowframe]: An observation:

Recently, on several applications we've seen people say 'I want to help with The Guides, or Elftown Graphics, etc!' and when we point out that they don't need to be on crew to help with these things (that they're supposedly interested in), instead of taking that as a cue that 'hey! That means I can go ask to help with that NOW!' they just remove it, and list something else! Which kind of suggests they didn't want to do it in the first place (so why on earth were they listing it?) and that they're not really interested in doing the work at all.

But also, to clear up that confusion of what you do/don't need to be on crew to do: Admin and Experts jobs you need to be on crew for. Workers jobs, you don't.

2011-06-20 [kians mummy]: i do want some workers jobs as well to start off with but they are even hard to get onto as well as there is no application to them as well.

2011-06-20 [Mystin]: I want to be part of the elftown graphics group.

2011-06-20 [kians mummy]: [Mystin] manners again please, you will get further when you use your manners. :)

elftown graphics group please note: [Mystin] is very good at graphics and art, i hope you take him on as he will be a good graphics worker :)

2011-06-20 [Lord Josmar]: I think all you have to do is simply donate to the efltown graphics wiki.

2011-06-20 [windowframe]: Donating to Elftown Graphics makes you one of the EG Artists. The Elftown Graphics Group are the boss group that maintain Elftown Graphics. :)

2011-06-21 [Mortified Penguin]: How is "I want to be part of the elftown graphics group" any less rude than "i do want some workers jobs"?

In either case, neither is rude.

2011-06-21 [Lord Josmar]: Ah, I apologize for my mistake.

2011-06-21 [Mystin]: Thanks Mort! <3

2011-06-22 [kians mummy]: You could put

please can i become part of the eg graphics group

2011-06-22 [Alexi Ice]: It would be better if you wrote 'May I please become a member of the Eg graphics group' but I don't think he offended anyone with the way he said it the first time.

2011-06-22 [Nioniel]: EG Graphics is actually redundant, as the first "G" in EGG stands for "Graphics," as in, the Elftown Graphics Group. At any rate, at least two or three EGG members have seen the request now. :)

2011-06-22 [Alexi Ice]: Oh, lol. I don't know much about the graphics group

2011-06-24 [Mystin]: I have dropped my application for certain. Thank you ET so much for the consideration, really, I appreciate all efforts! I will never forget what this site has done for me!

2011-06-24 [XxTsomexX]: Your sarcasm is a little unappealing. So, once my wiki page is done, where exactly do I put it?

2011-06-24 [Akayume]: Under Hedda's example. (:

2011-06-24 [Lord Josmar]: At the very bottom under [Hedda]'s application.

2011-06-24 [Lord Josmar]: Curse your speedy fingers Akay!

2011-06-24 [Akayume]: :P I've been told that more than once.

2011-06-24 [XxTsomexX]: Thank you. :)

2011-06-24 [XxTsomexX]: Done and done. :)

2011-06-25 [Mystin]: Due to recent transgressions, I'm not sure what level I stand on apply to the crew. mystin for crew is the wiki name so please council add to it's level. Thank you so much!

2011-06-25 [Alexi Ice]: You need to place it under Tsome's page so that it can be resorted.

2011-06-25 [Mortified Penguin]: Unless it hasn't changed any. If it hasn't, you should be able to place it back where it was.

2011-06-25 [Alexi Ice]: Unfortunately, applications that have been removed more than once are up for being resorted.

2011-06-25 [Mortified Penguin]: That seems rather arbitrary and inefficient. Does the mere act of removal really warrant a resorting? Does that count against an applicant or something? Like, will [Mystin] be penalized for removing his application more than once?

2011-06-25 [Alexi Ice]: It has been discussed that there needs to be at least some limitation on people being allowed to add themselves back to their applications original positions.

2011-06-25 [Mortified Penguin]: But, assuming there has been no change to the application, why can't they? That doesn't make sense in the slightest and only serves to take up more of the council's time. Plus, no such rule is listed anywhere.

2011-06-25 [Flisky]: I think it would fall under 5 and 6 in the requirements. :P First because it is showing unreliability to pull out every time something happens, and second because it is showing that the person is unwilling to work with the sullen assholes on crew. The resorting will be under the same guidelines as the original, so there is a chance it will go into the same place. Other than that, if the member proves that they are more willing now and more able now to meet the requirements, then that will be for the better in the resorting.

2011-06-25 [Mortified Penguin]: So the removing does actually have potential to change the sorting of the application?

2011-06-25 [Flisky]: If it is multiple removals for little reason, yes, it does. Just like the fact that even the sorted applications can move for the right reasons (such as updating or the member has volunteered/donated more and shown more responsibility around ET.)

2011-06-25 [Mortified Penguin]: What do you consider little reason? Would someone constantly removing their application because they didn't like how it was sorted affect future sortings?

2011-06-25 [Flisky]: Little would be for 'petty' reasons, at least to me. Like...say, 'I got into a disagreement with someone so I am removing all my stuff', or 'I think this council member is ugly/mean/any other sort of insult, and I just can't work if they are on crew'.

If they removed it because they didn't like it how it was sorted, I know that for me it would raise the question of 'why didn't they improve upon/add to it to get it into a place they wanted?' It may affect future sorting. Unless they explained in advance that they were removing their application until such a time that it was what they would consider apply to the crew ready. (Again, just my opinion.)

I don't think if it was for legitimate reasons, such as illness, real life crisis, or emergencies, that removing it would really affect the sorting unless it was changed before re-applying and proper notification was given to the council even after the fact. (Explaining what happened to the council is always a plus.)

2011-06-25 [Mystin]: @ [Flisky] I don't want to fully publicly tell people why I took my app down, but it's due to an uploading art violation mostly, I can link you to the situation.

2011-06-25 [Flisky]: PM me and we can continue this conversation.

2011-06-25 [Mystin]: Will do.

2011-06-25 [Mortified Penguin]: So you consider the removal of my previous applications, on the grounds that I thought such a low sorting was completely unacceptable, to be petty? You insult me, madam. *starts taking off his white, sequined dueling glove*

2011-06-25 [Flisky]: What to do with you Mort? The removal of an application on the grounds of a low sorting is slightly unacceptable unless you had plans to take some time and revamp it and make it AWESOMESPECTACULARAMAZING, or even just a little bit better. :)

2011-06-25 [Mortified Penguin]: *slowly raises the glove to cheek level*

2011-06-25 [Ravendust]: [Mikhul, the Bard] has been inactive for 49 days.

[Jewl] has been inactive for 42 days.

2011-06-25 [Alexi Ice]: Thank ya, Raven ~

2011-06-26 [Ravendust]: No problem :)

2011-06-29 [Stephen]: Whelp, here goes. :)

2011-06-30 [Lord Josmar]: Should [Mystin]'s application be removed?

2011-06-30 [Mortified Penguin]: Yeah, he said on his latest Youtube video that he wants it removed.

2011-06-30 [Lord Josmar]: Pfft.

2011-06-30 [XxTsomexX]: Geez.

2011-06-30 [Mortified Penguin]: Geese.

2011-06-30 [Thunder Cid]: *takes a drink*

2011-06-30 [Paul Doyle]: It wouldn't look good on his cosmetics resume.

2011-07-29 [DarkJenni]: I'm still here!

2011-11-03 [Eyden13]: Thanks for not deleting my app. I was unable to log on for several months, and I was worried it would be deleted, but its not. Thank you!

2011-11-03 [Alexi Ice]: Often times if you were gone it would be moved but never deleted ^^ welcome back!

2011-11-17 [Ravendust]: [Ihsahn] has been inactive for 109 days and [One With Nothing] has been inactive for 79 days

2011-11-17 [Lord Josmar]: Lolz. Thinning out the competition?

2011-11-17 [Ravendust]: lol, just trying to be helpful. :) Its an added perk though ;)

2011-11-18 [kians mummy]: [Ravendust]: The reason [Ihsahn] hasn't been on is because he has passed away, so this will not be taken down, as this will help other members remember him by, this is also whats happening on all other sites he has been on. :)

2011-11-18 [kians mummy]: With the inactive member, they are in the low category, so if they do decide to come back, they will still be there and in with a chance.
:)

2011-11-20 [Stephen]: I've temp removed my app -- just until I get unbusy. :P

2011-11-20 [Mortified Penguin]: Oh noes. D:

2011-11-20 [Stephen]: Psh. :P

2011-12-04 [perfumed ignition]: I submitted my application, but it's honestly terrible at the moment. If anyone is bored and has nothing else to do, I could use a few tips and pointers. :P

2011-12-06 [Alexi Ice]: inactive member applications actually go here. If a member has been inactive for 40+ days then someone will typically move them over to that page. Thank you, Ravendust ^^

2011-12-07 [kians mummy]: How long does it usually take for a member to move up to medium or high, I mean, there is nothing wrong about my application now, yet I haven't moved up a little bit, I know you/ the council and guards hate me, but why, I have a job on Elfpack as a volunteer, I am on the council on Cathug, So why am I ignored

2011-12-07 [Chimes]: Applications can always be improved, even high ones. Just keep working at it. We have a certain criteria we sort them with, once an app meets them it will move up.

2011-12-07 [djxmonster]: [kians mummy]: I'm Guard/Council on EP, E12, Cathug, and formally Elftown. Yet I'm considered "low" because I haven't met the criteria they are looking for. It has nothing to do with anyone "hating" you. We don't hate anyone. You and I don't haven't gotten along very well in the past, yet I made you council on Cathug. Just because someone may not "like" you doesn't mean they won't give you a shot. However, complaining that everyone hates you is going to make people start to ignore you. Keep working at it and if you are right for the position, it will come. Hope this helps.

2011-12-07 [Lord Josmar]: My application hasn't move up either, but I'm not saying everyone hates me *Looks around to make double sure that nobody hates me*. Just keep up with the contributions and helping out.

2011-12-07 [Alexi Ice]: I hate you, Jos. Lol. J.k. On a different note that was very well put, D.J.

2011-12-07 [wicked fae mage]: And if we were going to discriminate against an application just because we've butted heads with another member of the site, we wouldn't be the type of people that are cut out for crew :)

2011-12-07 [Mortified Penguin]: That's totally not a lie at all.

2011-12-08 [Alexi Ice]: I know a few of the crew members have fought before but we still work together.

2011-12-09 [Mortified Penguin]: Because you had to. Because you were already crew members. But if someone the crew doesn't like (due to personal issues with that person) applies, no matter how good they would be at the job or how trustworthy they are, they will never become a crew member, because the crew decides who the new crew will be. And blah, blah, blatant nepotism, etc. We've been over this before. And because of it, members who would do extremely well on the crew, like Josmar, djx (again), Turkey, Imperator, and some others, never get the chance. And instead, Elftown only gets more of the same. More girls of the same type of mindset. The same sense of humor. Basically the same morals. Only friends of crew members become crew members, so it's obvious that the new crew members are going to act and think almost exactly the same as the old members, because birds of a feather, blah, blah, nobody cares. It's so painfully obvious who will and will not get hired next. Just look at their relations list.

Also, continuing with that line of thought, I would like to preemptively congratulate Tsome on becoming a crew member! I know you'll do well and I'm looking forward to it.

2011-12-09 [XxTsomexX]: ...wait, I became one? XD

2011-12-09 [Mortified Penguin]: Soon enough. Soooon enough. >:|

2011-12-09 [XxTsomexX]: O-o Oh, well... Yay! lol I suppose that's a surprise. I thought my application was going to end up in the low category. Thank you for believing in me though Mort :)

2011-12-09 [Mortified Penguin]: I believe in absolutely everybody, except people who don't believe in absolutely everybody. And hypocrites. There's nothing I hate more than hypocrisy and sarcasm.

2011-12-09 [Mortified Penguin]: And I've never been fond of irony or self-referential meta-humor either. But that has nothing to do with this wiki, so I suggest we all take our many, many comments and head over to Bob's Diner.

2011-12-30 [Stephen]: Come be Elfpack Crew. ;)

2012-06-11 [DarkJenni]: I'm alive, don't worry lol.

2012-12-16 [Mortified Penguin]: I'm not sure if my new application is professional or respectful enough for the crew. Could a crew member kindly take a look at it before now and two years from now when it finally gets sorted and let me know if there's anything I should change around?

2013-01-19 [HTOWNCASPER]: I want to apply for the crew.i got a lot of ideas and am on here quite often.

2013-01-23 [Ravendust]: set up a wiki page with an application :)

2013-01-23 [kians mummy]: Yep and I'm sure me or [Ravendust] can help you with what you need to do, but we can not do it for you. :)

2013-01-23 [Mortified Penguin]: Yeah, [kians mummy] should be able to assist you. She's pretty good at this, after all. Her application even made it into the "low" section! And, since the application process here goes by golf scoring, she's currently winning.

2013-01-23 [kians mummy]: Ha Ha, nice

2013-03-13 [kians mummy]: My application has been on for ages lol. :)

2013-03-13 [Mortified Penguin]: Are you sassin' me, sammie? HUH?

2013-03-13 [kians mummy]: no I'm askin you lol. :)

2013-11-30 [DarkJenni]: mine too. ^^

2013-12-02 [kians mummy]: Right, my application has been up for time, not even moved up one little bit, I've been away for a while and came back to see if the Council are still being uptight and prejudice against me, you don't give me a chance, yet other sites have, I have not caused any major problems and it seems you are just stubborn ass holes who need to Lighten up the mood on Elftown, this maybe a Strict website but only [Hedda] Gets paid to do this, nobody else (aka Donations), so why not stop being stubborn and start working with members, not against them, remember, you was all once a member yourself, so how would you feel if someone was treating you the same way as you treat me, and No more, only want the
Crew to Reply to this.

2013-12-02 [windowframe]: "you are just stubborn ass holes who need to Lighten up"

That'll totally get them on your side and prove that: they should want to work with you/that you've changed/that you can be polite and patient.

Good job!

2013-12-02 [kians mummy]: [windowframe] I have given up trying to get them on my side, there nasty pieces of work who just bully people, websites first came about to help people connect and communicate around the Countrys, now around the world, and Elftown is the only site I've been on that when you message someone just to say Hi, they Play hell with you, it's a pile of Crap, but hay, It's my public human right to speak my mind, and I think the way this sites run is derisory, I remember when we used to get loads of new members, now members can't wait to leave, good on you to the crew for bringing the site down not up!

2013-12-02 [kians mummy]: I've been trying for 4 years

2013-12-02 [windowframe]: Not giving you a job you want doesn't actually constitute bullying, or make people nasty. And not wanting to work with someone who starts to insult them every time she gets bored of waiting to be given the job she wants is fairly reasonable, from my point of view.

"Elftown is the only site I've been on that when you message someone just to say Hi, they Play hell with you," Yes, I admit that when the council dictated that this was the correct and only way normal members should respond to 'Hi!' messages or face being banned, it was a bit much. Totally the council's fault, there.

"It's my public human right to speak my mind" That's a new one. I wasn't even aware there were public and private human rights.

" I remember when we used to get loads of new members" Your account was created at the very end of 2010. Elftown's sign-up rate had already dramatically dropped off by then. Most council members remember even better than you how many active members ET used to get. You are not this lone voice in the wilderness wanting to fix elftown and make it better. 100% of the council want that too. You telling them that you think they're shit because they didn't give you what you wanted helps how, exactly? Unless your suggested policy for improving Elftown is to just give everyone what they want?

Honestly guys, you should just delete her app. -_- She's never going to change (as she said - it's been 4 years now!). She's always going to periodically resort to hating on you all (because being a crew member on ET is also a public human right! Stop denying it to people, guys!).

2013-12-02 [nehirwen]: Shut up [windowframe] person, she want only crew to reply to this! D:

But you're right, insulting the crew for 4 years doesn't make us like you or wanting to work with you.
Maybe it's time to move on and help the community just by being active, we love active members! :)

2013-12-02 [windowframe]: But I have a public human right to speak my mind!

2013-12-02 [Mortified Penguin]: All people should have the right to speak their mind! Even criminals like [windowframe]!

2013-12-02 [windowframe]: Oh hey, lookit. Mort likes to go back and delete his old comments/edit others. Who knew? Guess I'll do the same too.

2013-12-02 [Mortified Penguin]: Oscars are for cinematic achievements.

2013-12-02 [Mortified Penguin]: That seems kind of rude, Silvie. :(

2013-12-02 [Flisky]: Seriously, this is getting out of hand now. Can we please move this to a more appropriate venue?

2013-12-02 [Mortified Penguin]: As a Godly man, I take offense to your sins against me. *gently caresses the crying alter boys around him, soothing them with his handsomeness*

But I agree with Flisky, let's take this elsewhere.

2013-12-02 [Mortified Penguin]: Messaged.

2013-12-02 [perfumed ignition]: No it's alright, I don't mind if my application hasn't been sorted, that's perfectly okay with me. I never expected to get anywhere with it, I just figured I'd put it up for the fun of it. I'll take it down, if it's too much trouble, I don't want anyone getting mad about it. :(

2013-12-02 [Flisky]: No one is mad about an application. It's just that, yes, the people who usually moderate apps have been busy. (I think. Don't quote me on that.)

2013-12-02 [perfumed ignition]: I understand completely how real life can get in the way and things can take time. I run into that problem myself sometimes with roleplaying. I'm definitely not complaining though, keep up the good work! :)

2013-12-03 [Paul Doyle]: In other news, neckties make men stupid.

2013-12-03 [hanhepi]: Sammy: Calling us "ass holes"(sic) and "nasty pieces of work who just bully people" isn't going to help your case. Your application has "not even moved up one little bit" because it still only rates being in the low section, and the individual sections aren't organized in any particular way. A low is just a low, a medium is just a medium, etc. Also, the fact that on your application you claim several things I've yet to see evidence of (for example: writing exceptionally well, great patience, acting professionally) ain't exactly helping your case.

Other Stuff: Perfumed's application will get sorted next time we go to sorting applications.
Paul: It's because they cut off the circulation.

2013-12-03 [Paul Doyle]: (I wear neckties eight hours a day, five times a week!)

Poor [Sick] seems to have run out of sick time many years ago, and called out dead. Who shall speak for him or her?

Sammy, I put a huge amount of time into my own application before I finally withdrew it (no plans to come up with a new one, by the way, unless I get a very compelling reason to do so). Karma is a bitch, Sammy It has come back and smacked you up across the face with a 2x4, Sammy. But instead of making the best of a second chance, a time to make things right in an amiable and equitable fashion, you've gone back to your old tricks, picking fights in cowardly fashion and generally making others' time on Elftown an unpleasant stay. Shame on you, Sammy. Why have you not been greeted with open arms? Well, Sammy, you insulted these VOLUNTEERS again, for no good reason and the same old bullshit that nobody believes anymore, because times have changed and people have moved on.

Karma is a bitch, again. You're finding that out again, Sammy. Instead of karma smacking you upside the head with a 2x4, karma is now running you under the wheels of a 4x4. Kindly quit and shut up while you're still behind, please. Life is too short and to precious. Focus on your family, Sammy,and put this site out of your mind entirely.

Reap what you sow, Sammy.

2013-12-03 [hanhepi]: Bah, Paul, that was supposed to be "sic" only in brackets, like "sic" should be. But something wonkey happens when you try using the brackets on it, whether single, double or even triple sets of them. I missed where it turned into [Sick], lmao. poor Sick... I abuse that username so often.
Other than that: dude, calm down on Sammy.

2013-12-04 [kians mummy]: [hanhepi]: What case, there isn't one i don't want to be on the crew anymore, I'm happy doing what I'm doing on other Heddate sites, that's why I am removing my application, I think the Crew need to realize they are all Volunteers, they don't get paid to act like dick heads, but then again, there mums probably dropped them on there heads when they was born, Elftown brain washes members, people get overly addicted, just like they do with Facebook.

The Crew can only blame themselves for losing members, if you look back in arguments between crew and members you will see that the members left because of the crew, you may be crew members, but that doesn't mean that normal members can't have there say.

2013-12-04 [windowframe]: They don't get paid to do anything and trust me, they're all fully aware of that.

2013-12-04 [Flisky]: I thought I had already requested an end to this. Sammy I have attempted to be nice to you time and time again, but when you insult the crew and council, you insult me as well, and then talking about parents dropping their children is taking it a little too far. I suggest you stop and take this off this wiki. IF you want to continue the argument, do so in another place. Not here.

2013-12-04 [Mortified Penguin]: Like Bob's Diner!

2014-01-09 [Sagacious Turkey]: You guys, don't you think it's a bit unfair to have people who are no longer members of the crew (talking about [windowframe] and occasionally [Alexi Ice]) helping decide who the new crew should be, especially since a lot of the decision is based on whether they'll be able to "work alongside" them? Having someone that won't be working alongside the applicant decide whether they should be crew or not based on whether they think they could work well with them is kinda crazy and illogical.

And the whole "they can only be on the crew if you think you'll be good friends with them" mentality is counter intuitive for a site with all sorts of competitions like this. The job of the crew is often picking winners for competitions or picking what gets featured on Mainstreet. If new crew members have to be able to get along perfectly with old crew members, then they'll have similar personalities, similar likes, and similar dislikes, leading to a stale and boring site where the same sort of art always wins or gets featured, Mainstreet is covered in the same type of poetry and writing, and nothing ever changes. Innovation ceases. Different people are shunned and people who are unique and quirky will be overlooked and ignored. This has already happened in a number of different ways and places. As Mort pointed out over a year ago, there had been like 30 girls that liked roleplaying that were in their 20's chosen as featured member in a row. That's so boring to anyone who isn't a carbon copy of that. It's been changed up a bit since that was pointed out, but it'll only end up happening again if you don't stop the problem at its source. The problem, of course, being that the crew is VERY similar. Yeah, you're not the same person... yeah, you might like fish and the other girl the same age as you from the same country as you that likes the same books as you and has the same friends as you and hangs out on the same wikis as you doesn't like fish and therefore you're completely different people, I understand... but you have to admit you guys are all extremely similar to one another. Again, this is bad for a site that is based on creativity. This isn't a criticism of the crew, I'm just saying Elftown as a whole would greatly benefit from a little variety.

[Stephen] was a GREAT choice for the crew and I highly advise you add him back as soon as possible and maybe a few other people who aren't just like you (not me or Mort, of course, we're best for Elftown as free agents, not constricted crew members). People like [Pillowthief] and [Paul Doyle] would also do wonders as crew members, if they're even up for it. They're here often, they're dedicated members, they can be trusted, they aren't troublemakers, and they'd add new, unique perspectives to problems or to voting on competitions. What could you possibly lose by adding one or both of them to the crew? Your only choices for new crewbies shouldn't be the people listed here and your friends, but anyone on Elftown that knows the basics and is willing to help out.

2014-01-09 [Sagacious Turkey]: Anyway, before I get the standard, inexplicable "shut the fuck up, troll" response from someone who either didn't read or didn't comprehend my sweet text wall, I'mma head out. But I'm trying to be serious, here, despite what you may think. Peace, nuggets.

2014-01-09 [Mortified Penguin]: Shut the fuck up, troll.

2014-01-09 [Paul Doyle]: Thanks for the shout-out, but I've moved on in life, and also on my desire to join a crew on a site that refuses to modernize (thereby making it borderline-worthless to quality newcomers). Elftown is saved by its strong nostalgia factor alone.

If and when this site ever does modernize, please ask me again if I'd like to be on the crew. In the meantime, I'm content to lurk on Elftown, and not be be in a hurry to be a lot more active (that is, not merely logging in and passively peeping around). Elftown may have been in a vacuum for the last five years or so, but life goes on.

2014-01-10 [Mortified Penguin]: Speaking of being active, I don't understand why only very active members are allowed on the crew and people who log on only a few times a month will never be considered. There's no limit on the number of crew members Elftown can have, so what would be the harm in adding someone who would only occasionally help out? That would still be more help they'd receive than if they didn't consider that person.

Also, adding on to what Turkey said, if nothing else, the crew could at least switch up duties from time to time. Like maybe the person in charge of the daily poem could take over featured art, the featured art person could take over the featured member stuff, and that person could take over the daily poem. That would add a little variability to things (assuming it's not just one person in charge of all of it right now).

2014-01-10 [Flisky]: The only issue with the switching of jobs is that (at least with the Daily Poem) there is a lot of actual work to posting updates. And the bosses have to sift through a lot of things before posting. So it would't be feasible for another boss to take over for a short period of time.

2014-01-10 [Mortified Penguin]: What about halving the work with that boss and then helping them with part of their job? HUH?!@

2014-01-10 [wicked fae mage]: That would honestly require more touching base with each boss you are collaborating with and just add more work.

2014-01-10 [hanhepi]: Turkey, I get what you are saying. A lot of the crew is very similar, but there are still a few of us very unlike the others. Punk, Veltzeh, and Jos for example have penises (I assume), and are clearly not the 20something females you described. And while I prefer to think that you think I'm a 20something female, I'm really in my mid-30s. I've never been in an RP (online or tabletop), and I have a vastly different take on life than these young whipper-snappers. (*waves cane in the air dramatically*)
Silvie, while officially retired, is kept on basically in an advisory roll. Having been here as long as she has, she remembers people who have been pains in the asses in the past. Plus she remembers a lot of the stuff we've tried to do in the past that simply didn't work, and why it didn't work. And she knows and watches like every wiki ever made by anyone, so when you can't remember where you read that one thing about how to do the stuff you are trying to do, she points us in the right direction. (Then comes and makes all my templates work. I swear I still can't do those.)

As to the other thing that Mort (that is Mort, isn't it?) brought up: Switching the jobs periodically seems like an okay idea on the surface, but then you run into the assholes people like me that flat-out refuse to do some jobs. I wouldn't mind helping out on the Featured Art or Member, but I really wouldn't want to deal with Daily Poem. I can't stand poetry for the most part, so to pick a "good" one to feature I'd be printing them out and throwing darts at them or something.

2014-01-10 [Flisky]: ...Han, printing out the list of Daily Poem submissions would seriously take all day...that's just for the printing.

2014-01-10 [Mortified Penguin]: Maybe you guys could revamp this wiki and put it up on Mainstreet to get more people interested in joining the crew and helping out, since the crew has such a big workload and needs new crewbies. I'm sure there are people out there that would be willing, they just don't know about this wiki.

And no, I'm not Mort. I'm Morg now. MORG.

2014-01-11 [hanhepi]: Flisky, you'd only have to print the whole list once. You'd just have to print like 10 or 15 more when the stuff from the submission page was moved over. Still, better have a fresh cartridge in the printer before you start. >.<

2014-01-13 [Stephen]: I'd be happy to be on the Elftown Crew, and I am active on Elftown now that I'm not sick.


In all honesty, I don't think the Crew will have an enormous impact on the site development. I've went out of my way on Elfpack to make things as inclusive for members with site-decisions as I can and try to throw in variety for the reason that Mort did mention, but I've been running into the same dead end for years now: The site's ugly and people don't like ugly. There's really nothing the Crew can do about that overall, unfortunately.

I've been talking to Hedda about revamping things and I have made some progress with having him change things (colors on Main, iframes on Main, some others..), but like all of us, he's a volunteer with a (busy) life, so it's quite slow.

What I think would be best would be for the three communities (Elftown, Elfpack and FAKE) to have some kind of IRC-type chat between all the Crew to come up with ideas that would help all the sites, to do with appearance. All three sites use the same layout with different graphics, so a layout change would likely effect all three of them. Then we, as a whole, could talk to Hedda and present information to him. He's told me to make changes he wants to know what to do, why to do it, and how it will help. It'd help out a lot more to have a group working on things and artists on hand to make things, than to have a few small groups pestering Hedda with different ideas. One firm and well written idea/plan would likely make much more of an impact; moreso if we can explain why and how it would help.

I mean, to be dead honest, I don't even look at Mainstreet very often past the News. It's long and cluttered, and when it's not cluttered it looks dead and empty. :P


However! I'd like to be on the Elftown Crew and to help out how I can; I do have extensive knowledge in pretty much all areas.

Sorry for the wall of text! ):

2014-01-14 [hanhepi]: The IRC conference is a great idea. Scheduling it could be a bitch and a half though. :/ Someone is going to have to stay up until 3 am their time and try to be coherent enough to participate. What about using a Forum on one of the 3 sites though? I'd think most Crew would have a profile on at least 1 of the other sites, forums are easy to create, and can be used at your own speed...

Glad you're feeling better now!

2014-01-15 [Stephen]: The problem with that is at least on Elfpack and Fake, most of the Crew rarely (or never) uses the forum. The forums are another one of those things that most people don't like, even though the people who understand 'em love 'em.

Of course, if someone can't be assed to post in a forum you could say they're choosing to just opt out of the talks, but I almost feel like doing that would result in a grand meeting of eight people. ;;


Thank you. It's awesome not being sick all the time, hah. :D

2014-01-26 [Sunrose]: This is an interesting discussion! I've got so many things to add it's actually exciting :P

I think what people get confused about is that getting along doesn't have to mean that you agree with one another. In the old days it was easier to get a diverse influx of crewbies, because the Council had more members and they were quite diverse. With fewer members it's more likely that they'll pick people with likeminded views and interests.
It also seems like this wiki is now heavily relied on to get new crew (I don't know if this is true). Are people who are not on this wiki considered for crew? This wiki was once set up to make it easier for people to showcase their interest to all crew at once. But it shouldn't stop single crewmembers from asking members directly if they're interested.

There have always been more female members on crew since I can remember, because they seem to be volunteering more often (and seem more active in contributing). So that alone isn't reason enough to say they are similar (I know that's not what you said Turkey, but just wanted to point it out). I don't think Veltzeh ever went on record on gender btw [hanhepi], so you don't really know if Veltzeh has a penis or not. And I believe Veltzeh would like to keep it that way :)
And Stephen being male doesn't automatically mean he therefore is an awesome addition to diversity of opinions. Not saying that he wouldn't be an awesome addition, I honestly don't know. Apparently Stephen has built up quite a resume on the other sites and the once badgehorny teenybopper made place for a more mature version. Now that he was initially given a chance and had it taken away despite being in the hospital, I would like to see what he can do. I'm curious as to why he wasn't reinstated after his explanation (and saying you're waiting for the 'next round' to add crew, which was said in the forums, doesn't make sense to me :P)

Suggesting to add less active people seems like an OK idea, but it's also disappointing when in the end it turns out this person doesn't actually do anything except receiving the badge. Which is something that has even happened in the glory days.
Switching jobs might be harder than it seems, plus people would actually have to be interested in doing those other jobs as [hanhepi] pointed out. Often when they are they already contribute.

I've actually thought about Paul being crew too. It's sad you wouldn't consider this position anymore Paul. Now is the time you could actually mean something to Elftown, instead of waiting until it might ever be thriving again to finally chip in. As Stephen (and many others) said it's not the crew who doesn't want to modernize. And really..you're not passively peeping around, you are contributing with comments. To me it seems like you've calmed down a lot, which would make it easier to work with you. Even though the request for modernization is getting a bit old, since we all already know how you feel about that :P
But I don't know how the crew actually feels about you as crew, so my 2 cents could be worthless.

2014-01-26 [Paul Doyle]: My two cents, Sunny . . . without the badly needed graphics-overhaul, this place IS worthless, except to those few of us who still roam around this place from a time when these graphics were homely and quaint but not outlandishly obsolete.

I don't need favors to be lured back here doing something besides farting around and goofing off. How do you make this dragon fly "home"? Give this place the looks of 2014, with the heart of 2003-era Elftown, along with a serious commitment to attracting the people who once made this place rock on a small scale. ("Serious" . . . however serious online standards can be, which really isn't a whole lot :p)

Beyond that, it's easy to get me back here. Helping breathe life into a dying real-life casino is far more daunting challenge than breathing life into a website that's needlessly stubborn and resistant to modernization.

Elftown makes me think of the sick and suffering patient who refuses treatment not because of religious objections, but because the patient thinks he or she is too good for those who are trying to help. As a result, the patient dies of a treatable condition. I'm not sure if that's really a good analogy, but ultimately this site suffers from a foolish arrogance that people will come to Elftown because it is Elftown, damn it. It's hard to overlooks the warts on the face of Elftown, because these warts are a cancer.

Blah blah blah . . . well, no mention of conspiracies or Hitler, right? (Whoops, just mentioned hm . . . )

(Looks like I missed high-flung deleted bullshit?)

2014-01-26 [Sunrose]: I'm not sure any of those members will return. Even if Elftown would get a complete make-over, they seem to have moved on.

It's not a favor, it was just an idea.
Like I said, the Elftown-overhaul request is getting a bit old. Elftown doesn't have a mind of its own, so it can not be stubborn or resist treatment. Referring to Elftown in such a way it makes it seem like you are referring to everyone in the crew. If that's true then what exactly do you suggest crewmembers do? Without actually needing Hedda? I'd like to hear some specific suffestions of things they could do to improve Elftown that doesn't require Hedda's assistance.

Hmm the older members do come here because it is Elftown, that's not arrogance..you even said it yourself :P

Huh what? I don't even get that xD
Is this in reference to me or?

(Huh? I don't get this either.. XD)

2014-01-26 [XxTsomexX]: I wish I was good at making graphics, I'd help. Alas, I'm a traditional artist, and draw with pen and paper, not computers. My application has been up there so long, and no one has told me how to improve on it, so I gave up on that part. Despite that, I'm always here.

2014-01-26 [Mortified Penguin]: Honestly, I would have thought they would have added you a long time ago, Tsome.

2014-01-26 [Mortified Penguin]: But maybe Hedda would be more responsive if we organized a fundraiser for new graphics and stuff for Elftown. I can't imagine he gets many donations these days and it's understandable he wouldn't be too concerned with spending a lot of time and energy on a selfish site that won't help him.

2014-01-26 [Sunrose]: There was a wiki with graphics though, I forgot the name :(

2014-01-27 [Paul Doyle]: Very well, then. Enjoy your antiquated looking website that doesn't appeal to anybody except long-term Elftowners. I'm not going to waste any more time on this subject. If/when this place is ever updated, pester me about getting more involved.

2014-01-27 [kians mummy]: So they took my comment off about [ippopa] taking my application down. lol

2014-01-27 [windowframe]: I doubt anyone removed a comment. Are you sure you made it on this wiki? [iippo] took your application down because you said that you didn't want to apply for crew/work with crew anymore.

"[kians mummy]: What case, there isn't one i don't want to be on the crew anymore, I'm happy doing what I'm doing on other Heddate sites, that's why I am removing my application,"

iippo just did it for you because you didn't seem to get round to it.

2014-01-27 [kians mummy]: But what right did she have to do so when I decided to leave it up? or is it just the targetting the Guards like to do

2014-01-27 [windowframe]: Was she supposed to read your mind to know you had decided that? You said you were going to remove it, she did it for you. She has every right to edit a crew page and remove content someone has said they don't want there anymore.

2014-01-27 [kians mummy]: But I didn't remove it did I?

Put yourself in my shoes, if that happened to you wouldn't you be pissed off, and be honest, your not crew no more so be honest as there's no need to lie?

2014-01-27 [Flisky]: To be honest, you should have said you wanted it left up. I would suggest against saying you want it gone and then get upset that it was removed when you did not rescind that statement.

2014-01-27 [Mortified Penguin]: If someone removed my app after I said I wanted my app removed, even though I secretly didn't, and the solution was as simple as editing the page and putting it back up, I don't think I'd get pissed and enraged and spend several days complaining about it to everyone on several different wikis and in my diary. I'm pretty sure I'd just put it back up.

2014-01-27 [Nioniel]: Gotta agree with Morg here. It's a pretty easy fix, [kians mummy]. If you saw that [iippo] had removed your app after you said you didn't want it up anymore, and you decided that you did want it up after all (or else never really wanted it taken down), this is a wiki that is dedicated to the putting up of applications. So just put it back up.

2014-01-27 [Sunrose]: @Paul: Why do you have to be mean and sarcastic about it? :(

@Sammie: [iippo] had no ill intent. You changed your mind about removing your application without stating so and it lead to a misunderstanding. If you want your application to be there, then why not simply put it back up there?

2014-01-27 [Mortified Penguin]: If I were a crew member, I don't think I'd be willing to put it back up for you. I mean, what if you don't actually want it back up and aren't telling us about it? You might get upset again if someone does something they think you want for you when you actually don't want it and we've seen how that's worked out in the past.

2014-01-27 [Mortified Penguin]: Sure was.

Anyway, I will agree with Sammie that she should be able to put in her diary that she's upset with [iippo]. I don't think she should, but I think she should have the right if she so chooses.

2014-01-27 [Mortified Penguin]: I don't think this is necessarily a big deal. It's only as bad as you make it out to be.

2014-01-27 [kians mummy]: I thought after 40 days of inactivity, the applications will be removed:
[DarkJenni]
[Roma]

2014-01-27 [XxTsomexX]: Gah, drama.

2014-01-27 [kians mummy]: No, drama over

2014-01-27 [kians mummy]: Off to Bob's diner fancy a pint of.........

2014-01-27 [Nioniel]: A lot of comments must have been deleted, because it looks like you're all arguing with yourselves. :P

2014-01-27 [kians mummy]: Ha Ha I removed them as I decided it was inapropiate. :)

2014-03-08 [Stephen]: Some things never do change.


I'm still interested in being on the Elftown Council, by the way. I'm also active again, since I'm no longer ill. =P

2014-07-17 [Stephen]: [DarkJenni], [Roma] and [XxTsomexX]:
Your applications were moved to inactive member applications.

2014-09-11 [The Black Goat]: [The Black Goat] - Nox for Crew and Council

2014-09-11 [kians mummy]: Oh mine is still here, thought it would of gone haha x

2014-09-12 [Stephen]: =P

2014-09-12 [kians mummy]: Been so long, dont know whats wrong with it, but oh well, all i can do is offer the help, even if it meant staying at priv 90 and no badge, just want something to do lol

2014-09-15 [Stephen]: Sammie (and anyone else interested), here's the best advice I can give you:

Saying what you can do is very different from showing us what you can do. Asking to help is always nice, but sometimes we can't think up something right away for you to do and a lot of official work requires privs.

The best way to make a point about how well you work, is by proving it. Go and chat in the public forums, show us you know how to use forums and how to interact with people. Make wikipages - nice and friendly pages ideally. They don't have to be official, or mock official. If you can create a page that gets positive attention and feedback, then that shows us that you know how to attract people, how to work on the wiki's, and all kinds of other points.

Without being able to show us that you can do something, and how you're able to do it, then you're going to make very little progress.


Also, Sammie, in personal regards for you: We know you have titles on other Hedda sites (I'm keenly aware, I appointed them to you.), but that doesn't show how you do on Elftown, which has different dynamics. Otherwise, saying you do all kinds of things on other sites without showing a lot of things you do on Elftown, just makes it look like you're too focused on those sites to be able to help with Elftown. :)

2014-09-15 [kians mummy]: Yeah, I understand, but you out of all people on here know I can do good, the other Heddate sites are dead, I want to help Elftown survive and thrive.

2014-09-15 [Stephen]: The other sites aren't dead. o_O
Fake's doing just as well as Elftown and even Elfpack isn't dead, it's just boring. :P

It's not what I know, it's what you can prove you can do. Ideally we're looking for people who can bring new and interesting aspects to Elftown and the Crew and can create and maintain projects on Elftown. =P

2014-09-15 [kians mummy]: Yeah I understand.

2014-10-23 [Sagacious Turkey]: Application submitted. I hope you guys will think about considering me for consideration. It would be considerate. Just consider it.

2014-10-23 [hanhepi]: Consider it considered, sometime considerably in the future, considering how quick we are to file these. :D

2015-06-15 [Sagacious Turkey]: I think at this point, I can probably get away with just considering it myself.

2015-06-16 [hanhepi]: We're still debating it, so just hold your horses on sorting yourself, okay? :P

2015-06-16 [Sagacious Turkey]: But they won't stop squirming. D:

2015-06-17 [hanhepi]: XD
Horses are squirmy bastards for sure. That's why it's such a challenge to hold them. Plus, they're heavy as hell.

2015-06-17 [kians mummy]: Lol.